Golden Demon Changes for this year

[THuff]

If you haven\'t seen them, there are several major changes to the categories and rules for the US Golden Demon this year.

For the details, look HERE.


In summary, here are the major changes occuring.

1) Categories have been reduced from 12 to 9, with only seven being eligible for the sword.

2) Duel has been eliminated. Anything that would normally count as a duel or diorama will now go into Open.

3) 40K Vehicle and Large have been combined.

4) Fantasy Regiment and Large Monster or War Machine have been combined. This places your regiment of 10 Dwarves right next to that Trebuchet and the Forge World Chaos Dragon.

I don\'t like the fact that they left 40K squad separate but moved regiment into large for Fantasy. Having War Machine and Large Monster in the same category was already the equivalent of the combination they did for 40K.


5) Single figures that come with a 40mm base can be entered as singles unless they are classified as a monstrous creature or are riding a vehicle such as a bike.



After all of these, I can understand some of their reasoning for the changes. A few of the categories were getting thin on the quality and the number of entries. This means that there are no easy pickings this year. I know a few people who were concentrating on those \"thin\" categories this year because they thought it might be easier. I hope this doesn\'t deter them from completing their entries.


-Terry

Mageworks

My Gallery

 

[THuff]

As an addition, rumor is that the rules for France are even harder than this, with Single figure being one category across all game systems (40k, Fantasy, Mordheim, ..etc).

-Terry

Mageworks

My Gallery

 

[Herb the bitter]

Thanks for the heads up, said my peace here:

http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/viewthread.php?tid=11317

 

[Albert Moreto Font]

no in france they keep the sinlges separated after all in france the level is incredibly high in ALL categories

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Yup its alrady been discussed.. comes down to these simple facts

1. To many shows in the US
2. Shows are not that well attended
3. Give away to many Demon Trophies
4. Demon trophies are expensive
5. Heres an idea lets cut categories
6. Less categories = less trophies
7. More GD profit..

When what they should do is cut 2 shows and concentrate their efforts on those or make Baltimore the Big show with the big trophies and make the other three smaller affairs.

Keep in mind this is just MY opinion...

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Originally posted by THuff
As an addition, rumor is that the rules for France are even harder than this, with Single figure being one category across all game systems (40k, Fantasy, Mordheim, ..etc).

-Terry

Mageworks

My Gallery

Nope french rules are posted.. they have their own categories in 06..

 

[dauber22]

I think the big deal is #2 - the shows aren\'t well attended. If they were better attended, there wouldn\'t be too many of them. Think about it. How big is Europe compared to the US and how many GD shows ~ ~ are there in Europe? BUt they are all well attended, from anything I\'ve heard, so there aren\'t too many of them.

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Originally posted by dauber22
I think the big deal is #2 - the shows aren\'t well attended. If they were better attended, there wouldn\'t be too many of them. Think about it. How big is Europe compared to the US and how many GD shows ~ ~ are there in Europe? BUt they are all well attended, from anything I\'ve heard, so there aren\'t too many of them.

Remember its all about your population draw, England with a population of 70+ million in a area the size of Wisconsin ,its easy to draw a crowd. With coaches, trains ectera getting to a GD is easy. Same goes for most of the other European shows..

For me to attend a GD I ehave to either fly or drive a minimum of 8 hours and stay over night in a hotel. Im sure this goes for most that may wish to attend a show that don\'t live in one of the 4 cities chosen. Not counting the $40.00 admission to go to a GD, its expensive to go. If I fly it costs me a minimum of $400.00 to attend any GD and Im sure those numbers are the same for anyone else who is in the same way. So to say why cant Atlanta or LA draw 5000 people were I think theres your answer. Baltimore at its peak befor they added the Chicago show let alone the other two was only 4000 people maybe and I bet its no where near that now.

 

[vincegamer]

If I understood you, I agree.

Not having an LA GD will not mean more people attend the Baltimore GD. The USA is so darn big you have to make things accessible.

 

[THuff]

Sorry, didn\'t see the original discussion.

If it\'s attendance that drives the decision, then Chicago would probably be the most likely place. I don\'t know exactly what the turnout has been in Baltimore, but Chicago was crowded both of the last two years.

The trophies don\'t cost that much to cast, so I can\'t see that being a reason. More likely, it\'s the limited number of entries they were getting in some categories with there being more venues than before. They may feel a need to make sure the quality of the winners that they want to associate with the competition is up to the image that they have created. Whether you like them or not, it is still the premier award for our hobby.

I\'m not really a fan of cutting back on locations, simply because of the distance that needs to be traveled to get to a convention in only one or two locations. As it is now, my drive time to a Gamesday is 7 hours to Atlanta or 9 hours to Chicago. Reducing back to Baltimore would make it 14 hours and probably eliminate my desire to attend. It is well worth Games Workshop taking a small loss on a couple of these events if it promotes the Hobby in the area.

Just a few thoughts.......



-Terry

Mageworks

My Gallery

 

[dauber22]

Originally posted by Dragon Forge Design

For me to attend a GD I ehave to either fly or drive a minimum of 8 hours and stay over night in a hotel. Im sure this goes for most that may wish to attend a show that don\'t live in one of the 4 cities chosen. Not counting the $40.00 admission to go to a GD, its expensive to go. If I fly it costs me a minimum of $400.00 to attend any GD and Im sure those numbers are the same for anyone else who is in the same way. So to say why cant Atlanta or LA draw 5000 people were I think theres your answer. Baltimore at its peak befor they added the Chicago show let alone the other two was only 4000 people maybe and I bet its no where near that now.

I agree completely. If I were to go to Baltimore, the closest one to me, it would easily cost $400 or more, an expense I can\'t justify. That\'s why I was really hoping they\'d put one in Dallas - where the kiddoes live. Then I could jsutify the expense

What\'s the answer, though. Cutting back on the number of shows isn\'t going to increase attendance? I guess, like you said, maybe do one or two big shows and a bunch of regional competitions ???

 

[EricJ]

I think basically what is good for GW to do to promote the hobby, and in turn sales in the US, is not the same thing that makes for the best painting competitions.

More competitions with less catagories makes it more accessable to people across the country, but then dilutes the entries, and makes some of the catagories make less sence.

Bottom line, US painters who really want top competition should get their butts to Europe

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

There really is no answer other than GW needs to quit being cheap and actually do something about promoteing the hobby and in raising attendance. Hey don\'t get me wrong, Ill attend at least once US show this year and if I can swing it go to the UK show again..where they have proper categories..

As for the prices of the trophies, I think I herd a couple years back they cost a $100.00 each to make.. but befor you go and say they are just resin.. its more than that they are polyester resin filled with a metallic pigment/dust wich isnt cheap.. (I know Ive cast it)theres molding costs and of course shipping from the UK where they are made. and as we all know they are heavy buggers.

but still to cut categories is well.. cheap..

 

[EricJ]

Originally posted by Dragon Forge Design
and as we all know they are heavy buggers.

hey, not all of us know this!

 

[Dammekkos2]

I don\'t like to see categories cut back. If anything, I\'d like to see more. I do understand the reasons given here though. And there is a general attitude that European Daemons are worth more than US Daemons (Which I also agree with to an extent - the bset entries are as good as anywhere else, but the depth is not there because of attendance factors and such).

I think that this will increase the value of US GDs (I don\'t think that actual production costs of the statues is a factor though).

When complaining about the drawbacks keep in mind though that UK GD is apparently too overcrowded to enjoy it properly, and costs twice as much due to market forces (they can charge a lot because attendance will be high etc)

p.s Jeff how much does it cost you to attend GDUK?

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Originally posted by Dammekkos2
I don\'t like to see categories cut back. If anything, I\'d like to see more. I do understand the reasons given here though. And there is a general attitude that European Daemons are worth more than US Daemons (Which I also agree with to an extent - the bset entries are as good as anywhere else, but the depth is not there because of attendance factors and such).

I think that this will increase the value of US GDs (I don\'t think that actual production costs of the statues is a factor though).

When complaining about the drawbacks keep in mind though that UK GD is apparently too overcrowded to enjoy it properly, and costs twice as much due to market forces (they can charge a lot because attendance will be high etc)

p.s Jeff how much does it cost you to attend GDUK?

A US GD ticket is $40.00 but includes the free mini. A GD UK ticked costs 25 pounds ( about $40.00 but no free mini)

As for my trip.. air travel, trains, hotels and food for a week in the UK about $1500-2000.00 All depends on where I stay but a deceint hotel is at least a $100.00 a night and useually more. Not a cheap trip but it is a weeks holiday and I do travel some.

 

[Medved]

numbers wise: the Uk golden demon is a monster 10,000+ people go and something like 3-5,000 entries in the golden demon. plus you get golden demon winners from all over europe (and occasionally the us) come to play too. my first year of entry saw nearly 1000 mini entered into 40k single mini.

france has a crow of about 3000, but has the name of the golden demon as a draw. (many of the finalists that didn\'t place went on to win in other countries)

after chatting with the head judges a few weeks back, they said that they would like to standardize the categories accross the board for each games day+ they would rather keep events to a single day (i believe US gd\'s can be 2 dayers??)

they were getting fed up of categories that were not being contested and so nearly pulled the australian GD and the same with the canadian one too. apparently in germany they used to give a golden demon statue for the best costume!

i would like to some day come over and compete in the US and then see if the demons have the same weight over there.........i\'m sure they do, mine\'s damn heavy!

 

[bayrodney]

Originally posted by THuff


2) Duel has been eliminated. Anything that would normally count as a duel or diorama will now go into Open.

What!!!

Even though i wont be entering, thats stupid!!

 

[EPStudios]

I personally on\'t mind that the duel category has been moved into the open category and I actually like that they are cutting back on categories. Winning a demon should be a prestigous thing. A part of me wants them to cut the LA GD just by looking at the entries this past year.... They were almost all below par compared to the usual GD standard. (sorry in advance to those of you who won demons there in \'05, it\'s just my opinion). I will be sure to travel to the UK or France to compete once I can steadily win Demons here in the states... like that\'s ever going to happen.

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Originally posted by Medved
after chatting with the head judges a few weeks back, they said that they would like to standardize the categories accross the board for each games day+ they would rather keep events to a single day (i believe US gd\'s can be 2 dayers??)

they were getting fed up of categories that were not being contested and so nearly pulled the australian GD and the same with the canadian one too. apparently in germany they used to give a golden demon statue for the best costume!

Baltimore use to be a two day evern but now all US GDs are one day events held on a Saturday instead of a Sunday like the UK.

Yup they were giving away Demons like candy bars at a fat kids camp..