Gaming Computers and CPUs *now with new question*

[hestan101]

Hi everyone, I’m looking into buying a new gaming computer and I think I’ve found a fairly good system at a price that won’t break the bank. (Yes, I know is cheaper and more effective to build my own, and yes I know it’s \"not as hard as it looks\", but I can’t bear the thought of shelling out up to a grand and then bugger it all by bending a pin.)
Now I’m looking everywhere to compare it to other systems to see if it really is good value

So far so good a 1 GB graphics card and 6 GB RAM for just over £830 appears to be a good deal. But this leads me to my first question, do these system specs look like they\'ll be have no trouble with the games of the next few years?

Select CPU : AMD Phenom II X4 940 3.0GHz
ATI Radeon HD4870 Dark Knight 1GB DDR5 Graphics Card

Corsair® 6GB DDR3 PC3-12800 TR3X6G1600C9

Select Hard drive: 500GB SATA Hard Drive 3-Gb/s

Sound Card : 8-channel HIGH DEF Audio ONBOARD

Software : Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit OEM with Windows 7 Voucher

Im fairly confident with them myself, but I thought it’d be worth asking to be completely sure. I understand its not going to be cracking security codes, but if its good enough to max out crysis its good enough for me.

My second question relates to the CPU. i chose one the highest upgrades in the specification list to make sure it can cope with whatever I throw at it. However, in my surfing i found this CPU description on a pc roughly £70 more expensive:

INTEL Core I7 920 SKT1366
STANDARD 2.66Ghz Per Core = 10.64Ghz Total Power

I know that its intended for overclocking (which im also not going to touch, boring I know, but I don’t fancy voiding my warranty and having to end up dousing the thing with LN2) so the power is fairly low, but the part which confused me was \"per core\". Do all multi-core CPU\'s power/GHz ratings describe a single core? For instance, does an AMD Phenom II X4 940 3.0GHz have a total power of 12.0GHz?

And so ends my waffling techno-rant. Any help and responses are greatly, greatly appreciated.



EDIT: Damn forgot the graphics card

SECOND MORE RECENT EDIT:
**Note: I\'ve just read this through and realised how large it is, so the essential parts relating to questions are in denoted by \"relevant\"in CAPS because i was too short sighted to use bold. However if you want to read my titanic waste of bandwith feel free**

I resurrect another of my threads, this time with another query. I haven’t bought a PC yet, and its a good thing that I haven’t, as something has happened that adds enough money to my budget (and no, before there are any fears, it’s not inheritance) to up into the \"high end” of gaming computers so I’ve looked at a couple of custom PC sites and made an affordable dream set up. Here it is:

Processor (CPU)
AMD PHENOM II X4 945 3.0 GHz SOCKET AM3 8MB CACHE

Memory (RAM)
8GB CORSAIR XMS2 DUAL-DDR2 800MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY!

Motherboard
ASUS® M4N78: DUAL DDR2, S-ATA II, PCIe x16, 2 x PCIe x1, 3 x PCI

Operating System
Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium 64-bit + Windows 7 Upgrade Voucher (£86)

USB Options
4 PORT USB 2.0 INTERNAL PCI CARD (TOTAL: 10 USB 2.0 PORTS!)

Memory - 1st Hard Disk
500GB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7,200rpm)

2nd Hard Disk
NONE

RAID (HDD 1 & 2)
NONE

1st CD/DVD Drive
22x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM

2nd CD/DVD Drive
NONE

Graphics Card
2GB ATI RADEON™ HD 4870X2 PCI EXPRESS

2nd Graphics Card
NONE

Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)

Network Facilities
ONBOARD 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT

Modem
NONE, I WILL BE USING BROADBAND

Memory Card Reader
NONE

Case
ANTEC 900 BLACK GAMING CASE

Power Supply & Case Cooling
700W Quiet Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£59)

Processor Cooling
ASUS TRITON 81 PURE COPPER BASE ULTRA COOLER (£49)

Firewire & Video Editing
NONE

TV Card
NONE

Monitor
NONE

2nd Monitor
NONE

GeForce 3D Vision
NONE

DVI Cable
NONE

Keyboard & Mouse
NONE

Mouse
NONE

Speakers
NONE

Webcam
NONE

Headsets (VOIP)
NONE

Surge Protection
NONE

Printer
NONE

Anti-Virus
NONE

Office Software
NONE

External Hard Drive
NONE

Home Installation
NONE

Warranty
1 Year Return-to-Base incl 1st Month Free Collect & Return

You may well wonder why i have included all of the \"none\" criteria, which leads me to my question. RELEVEANT: Are the components I’ve chosen going to run well together, or have I missed something, or skimped on coolage or power? Originally I only had a 400 watt PSU, and the websiste’s calculator told me to up it, which I did, to 800. It then told me that I only needed 700, which would also give a 20% allowance. It didn’t say anything about cooling, but I picked a middling upgrade to be safe.

Finally, I know I could wait for PC’s to get better before I buy it, but I don’t think im going to, as with that mentality I could be waiting forever. I mean, in two years time Nvidia are going to release 3d screens which don’t require glasses, so technology is unpredictable to wait for. incidentally, this is why RELEVANT: I picked the 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX285 PCI EXPRESS, over the cheaper 2GB ATI RADEON™ HD 4870X2 PCI EXPRESS, which im now seriously thinking about. Is this a good idea? Is it better to have two graphics cards than one large one? Is it a good idea to spend money in preparation for tech that is years away? Even as im typing, im thinking an enormous \"no\" to that one, so forget the monitor part, I’ll still leave it in the post cause I just think its incredible; but the two versus one graphics card question still stands.

Well, if you’ve managed to get through that obscene amount of text, then thank you for any help at all you can offer

 

[Amazon warrior]

Short answer: The core i7 wees all over anything that AMD have on the market right now. I have a system running on a core i7 and it is a beautiful, wonderful thing. And I built it myself. That GFX card\'s pretty good (I have the 4870 X2).

For explanations of the crunchy technical specs, I\'d recommend you go read a few articles on Anandtech or Tom\'s Hardware, particularly the ones that discuss cpu architecture.

 

[Niall]

What Wattage is your PSU? You really need to be getting a good 700W one or components can break due to lack of power. in PSU terms the cheapest are the worst so don\'t worry about spending a little too much on them.

I use 4GB of RAM and it works fine, I don\'t know how much system improvements the extra 2GB can give you. Still I don\'t know much about computers and only know that more usually means better!

 

[BPI]

Edit: didn\'t copy in my first line lol I second Amazon\'s recommendation of Anand & Toms, good reputable sites compared to most out there.

Graphics card, pay particular attention to pounds/performance, as you hit the top end you\'ll spend £10 per FPS you gain, in the midrange closer to 25p! Better to spend £100 on a card each year than to spend £500 now & have it be out of date in 6 months time, far too great a premium placed on these items in my opinion.

Is a 500gb drive big enough? If you intend to download HD video look at picking up a 2nd HDD at the 1tb mark & fit it yourself. How valuable is data, do you have a backup? Get a 2nd 500gb HDD & mirror them, all onboard the motherboard chipset nowadays, no need for a controller card.

Can\'t see mention of the chipset, make sure you\'re not being palmed off with a last generation motherboard.

From what I\'ve read the 3 channel memory kits are being ignored, use a dual on an Intel i5 setup, though you\'re not overclocking so you won\'t notice, you\'re paying a premium for it though. 64 bit OS enables over 4gb memory to be used, if you\'re using a 3 channel kit does the board have another 3 slots? If not then a memory upgrade will involve replacing rather than just adding.

The sound is meaningless, don\'t let it affect purchasing decision, all motherboards in the budget you\'re considering come with \"8-channel HIGH DEF Audio\".

Do you want a BluRay optical drive? Will computer games in future be download only or will these vast installs come on a BD disc rather than DVD?

Upgrade to Win7 ASAP, don\'t buy without that voucher.

I gave up on PC gaming when graphics cards shifted from AGP to PCIex16x so am a bit out of date but I appreciate what a nightmare it can be. Every user has slightly different priorities & when you\'re trying to make sense of a spec. that you\'re risking a grand on it can be nerve wracking. Just be sure to spend money on proper hardware, don\'t be led astray by fancy fan controllers, 7\" LCD panels that eject from an optical drive slot, windows, flashing lights, water cooling, etc.

Last thoughts 22\" monitor now minimum default. Do you need Optical Out or any other \"unusual/legacy\" ports? Many motherboards now only have a single PS/2 port, do you need a new keyboard or mouse? It\'d be a great shame to excitedly unbox it & find your keyboard won\'t plug in!

I\'m sure many others will chime in but hopefully that\'s some food for thought B.

 

[Amazon warrior]

Listen to BPI. He speaks sense. Especially about the MB and Windows 7 upgrade.

Basically, make sure you do plenty of research on the key components of the PC you\'re thinking of getting. Honestly, I really would recommend that you think about building your own, it means you get to hand-pick the components and get the best brands that you can - ready-built PCs are sometimes constructed with lower-range components that have a habit of going \"pfft\" at inconvenient moments (I\'m particularly thinking of PSUs here) or won\'t give you the future flexibility you want/need. Plus, building a computer is fun and educational! :yes:

 

[supervike]

Ah, I\'m glad I got off the \'upgrade the computer\' merry-go-round some time ago.

Thank you XBOX 360 for saving me tons of scratch!

 

[hestan101]

Power Alpha 850Watt PSU Modular
Asus M4A78T-E 780G ATX Motherboard

thanks for the help guys, but im still unclear as to if the AMD Phenom II X4 940 3.0GHz is a good chipset. is it?
also, i reckon its worth saying this now, there is NO chance of me building my own, im simply not confident enough.

as for the low range components, the system won the Total PC Gaming editor\'s choice award for june this year so it seems ok. and as for the Xbox, personally im not at all keen on thw whole atmosphere of Live, i know that that shouldnt stop me, but i prefer the whole layout of the PC

 

[BPI]

This is very rough but might help you in your research, otherwise, please ignore! Do not refer to this after August \'09, it\'ll be out of date! All prices need VAT adding...

Intel Core i7 920 ~£200
or
Intel Core i7 950 ~£390

Asus P6T SE (chipset Intel X58 & ICH10R) ~£130
or
Asus Rampage II Gene (chipset as above) ~ £155

Seagate or Western Digital 500gb HDD 16mb Caache SATAII ~£37

Crucial 6gb (3x2gb) PC3-10600 ~£80

OEM Win Vista Home Premium 64bit with Win 7 Voucher ~£85

Asus ATI Radeon HD4870 Dark Knight 1GB DDR5 Graphics Card ~£125

DVD-RW ~£22

Antec Three Hundred Gamer Case ~£42

ThermalTake W0105RB 700w ToughPower PSU ~£70


Forgot to mention monitor, must have DVI connector if not HDMI etc, HD-15 only no longer acceptable.

B.

PS just read last post, the AMD Phenom II X4 940 3.0GHz is the processor (CPU, like on the adverts where it says \"Intel Inside\") the motherboard chipset in this case is AMD 790GX & SB750.

Putting a PC together is nothing like it was 10 years ago where you had to muck about with various jumpers to get the clock multipliers to work properly. If you\'re not scared off by the idea of putting together a piece of Ikea furniture then a PC is a doddle (as long as your old computer is up & running so that you can follow instructions on the internet!)

PPS I\'ll leave it at that, don\'t want to be blamed if you\'re unhappy with final purchase lol Do read around Tom\'s Hardware though, if page after page of graphs are meaningless to you, just skip to their conclusion! You could also post on their forums for VERY techy replies!

 

[Amazon warrior]

Originally posted by hestan101
thanks for the help guys, but im still unclear as to if the AMD Phenom II X4 940 3.0GHz is a good chipset. is it?

Which is why I suggested two very good hardware review websites in my first post. EVERYONE\'S requirements are different. Go there, READ(!), and make up your own mind as to whether that CPU will give you what you require.

 

[Amazon warrior]

Originally posted by BPI
Intel Core i7 920 ~£200
or
Intel Core i7 950 ~£390

I\'d say there\'s no point even considering the 950 right now - far too much money for what you get back. Well, unless it\'s for bragging purposes, of course!

 

[Trevor]

If the I7 is only £70 more expensive I\'d get that, but beware, it may be only £70 more because they used cheaper components elsewhere.

I avoid gaming computer expense by being years behind the curve. I always upgrade to whatever the current low-end is, but because I\'m still waiting to play games from over 5 years ago I can game comfortably at max settings. Of course that doesn\'t work so well if you are an online gamer...

 

[BPI]

Agreed Amazon (950) but useful for seeing that the next step up is a BIG one! I\'d like to recommend waiting for the i5 but of course that leads to the trap of always waiting till next month for the better kit, which means no new computer lol Bite the bullet & don\'t look at PC prices for at least 12 months after forking out Hestan lol B.

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by Amazon warrior
Short answer: The core i7 wees all over anything that AMD have on the market right now.

lol

Originally posted by supervike
Ah, I\'m glad I got off the \'upgrade the computer\' merry-go-round some time ago.

Thank you XBOX 360 for saving me tons of scratch!

Yeah, it is a bit like that ain\'t it?

Long as you don\'t need the latest-and-greatest FPS 3D awesomeness a decent machine can do for years and years though, and PC games often greatly surpass their console counterparts in a few ways - input device(s) if nothing else!

Einion

 

[Amazon warrior]

@Trevor:

Gods, I love XKCD!

 

[BPI]

Hi Hestan, just sat on the bus for an hour on the way home thinking \"why did you type out all of that crap when the poor chap just wanted to know if the PC he\'d specced out would play current games? You berk\".

So, if all I\'ve done is befuddle, please read this as my reponse to your initial post...

Yep, go for it,

HD4870 graphics with 1gb DDR5 - looks good, it\'s not at a stupidly premium price point but will do what you need. Budget in £100 a year on a new graphics card so that you can keep up rather than spending any more now.

Quad core processor perfectly sensible & modern. Intel are in the lead over AMD right now with their new (expensive) Core i7 technology but without knowing the difference why would you notice?

6GB of DDR3 RAM is plenty & you\'ve got the 64 bit operating system so that\'s okay (32 bit version would only see 3½GB which would make buying 6 pointless).

500GB is a standard size HDD nowadays. Your motherboard will have multible SATA ports for attaching extra drives should you purchase any (they\'re easier to fit than it is to rewire a plug, don\'t panic!)

All onboard sound at this price point claims to be 8 channel High Def, nice to have but don\'t associate it with any value when costing up.

Vista 64 bit with Win7 upgrade voucher. It\'s the voucher that\'s important!


The £70 more expensive i7 PC is a step up from what you\'ve specced, probably worth it if you can afford.

But either way this looks to be a sensible PC purchase for playing modern games with a reasonable FPS at non-obscene screen resolution.



Things to watch out for:

Check the spec of the motherboard on the Asus website, looking for the ports on the back. Does it have what you need for your printer, scanner, speakers, hi-fi, tv, keyboard, mouse, internet connection, etc.

Graphics card has (primarily) 2x DVI-I ports. Good, not DVI-D. This means an adaptor will convert an old fashioned HD-15 (blue, 15 pins, looks a bit like a serial port) monitor lead to fit & your computer will output to an old CRT monitor. Very handy when you have to drag one out of the loft because the 24\" flat panel just doesn\'t turn on any more. If your monitor has a blue HD-15 rather than white DVI connector you\'re looking online for one of these except at half the price (not a quarter mind! just half ) http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=97442&C=SO&U=strat15

Power Supply. By preference you want your supplier to provide one that is 80Plus certified. Sensible efficiency reasons but also tend to not be budget rubbish.

Have you seen the case? Does it have room to add more optical drives - future upgrade to Blu-Ray? & more hard drives? Do you care?

One caveat re. \"max out Crysis\". I can\'t find any reason why you won\'t be getting good framerates on this older game with the HD4870 & up to date graphics card drivers but you could always do more. The only way to max it out & post screenshots of obscene FPS on overclockers forums would be to spend several thousand pounds & jerry rig a liquid nitrogen cooling solution lol I think you\'re on the right side of the bell curve with regards to fps/cost though

Don\'t stress though, bite the bullet & buy, there\'ll always be something twice as good & half the cost out next week but that\'s just chasing rainbows when I suspect a weekend of Crysis might be more fun

Have fun, B.

PS don\'t blame me if it all goes titsup

 

[hestan101]

wow i didnt expcet to get anything close to this much help. thanks guys!going for the i7 +£70 PC doesnt seem to appeal to me, as the CPU\'s only at 2.66 which is worse than my (admitedly dual core) current one. the graphics card is only at 896mb, the only area it pulls ahead in is a 1.5Tb hard drive, which i could get anyway if i wanted, but i just dont think id need it. besides at 1.5TB detachable one is only about £90 so if in a few years i need one ill be able to grab it on the cheap. once again cmon proves its superiority!

 

[hestan101]

bump for the edit

 

[No Such Agency]

Originally posted by Amazon warrior
@Trevor:

Gods, I love XKCD!

LOL! I just installed UT2004 on my new laptop... to be fair I did originally buy it in 2004.

MMMMMMMMMMULTIKILL!

 

[BPI]

Hi Hestan, I intend this to be short & quick lol

Are you equating the clock speed of the CPU with performance? If so, stop it. Intel marketed that way for ages so it\'s a common misconception. Your 3.0ghz Phenom isn\'t better than an Intel i7-920 2.66ghz just because the number is higher.

Lifetime Warranty - they don\'t tend to mean your lifetime. They\'ll replace the goods within the lifetime of the product ie as long as they still manufacture it. It\'s good, just not as good as it may sound Corsair is a perfectly respectable memory brand though.

A quick Google puts that motherboard in the £50 region. You\'re buying a respectable PC, it should be a £100 model (I haven\'t checked, just recommend you check what other AM3 socket motherboards there are out there & where yours sits in the list)(I\'ve checked now, find a better board).

USB ports are like the sound, should have 8 or so as standard anyway.

What brand is the Power Supply?

Buy an after market cooler after you\'ve got the PC at home. Only reasons for replacing are overheating (you\'re not overclocking so unless you store the PC wrapped in a sleeping bag next to a radiator it should be fine) or noise (subjective, why spend £50 on a kilo of copper if you don\'t need to?).

Don\'t buy 2 graphics cards, buy a better single. Nice case. It\'ll work as is B.

 

[No Such Agency]

Originally posted by BPI
Hi Hestan, I intend this to be short & quick lol

Are you equating the clock speed of the CPU with performance? If so, stop it. Intel marketed that way for ages so it\'s a common misconception. Your 3.0ghz Phenom isn\'t better than an Intel i7-920 2.66ghz just because the number is higher.

??? How DO you gauge a CPU\'s performance before you buy it then?