Few questions on glazing and blending in general

[gilljoy]

Finally got a hold of some good brushes so I'm now looking at having a go at blending. Relatively simple atm just want to smooth out the transitions on my Space wolves armour / smooth transitions on my space wolves cloak.

I've been practicing glazing / juicing (i think thats the right term) on some of my vampire count's spare sheilds. Just got a few questions on best way of going about glazing.
Should I be painting my shadow, mid tone or high light first and glazing up or down?

Also my second question, In general whats the quickest way of going about getting nice smooth transitions? Wet blending or glazing?

 

[Bloodhowl]

Finally got a hold of some good brushes so I'm now looking at having a go at blending. Relatively simple atm just want to smooth out the transitions on my Space wolves armour / smooth transitions on my space wolves cloak.

I've been practicing glazing / juicing (i think thats the right term) on some of my vampire count's spare sheilds. Just got a few questions on best way of going about glazing.
Should I be painting my shadow, mid tone or high light first and glazing up or down?
This is personal preference. Some people start witht the midtone and glaze down for shadow, up for highlights. Others go shadow to mid to highlight, and others start light and go dark.
Also my second question, In general whats the quickest way of going about getting nice smooth transitions? Wet blending or glazing?
Depends on your proficiency and paint choice. Both techniques can yield excellent results. Acrylics may need retarder to prevent them from drying before you can blend them, but the fast dry time really works well for layering/glazing. Slower drying time of oils will allow more time to get the wet-blend correct.

Bottom line I think it will all boil down to personal choice, and your proficiency at whichever technique you choose.

 

[gilljoy]

cheers man,

tbh I'm pretty crap with anything bar basic layering so trying to learn how to make my minis look awesome. I've picked up some retarder but wet blending still seems abit of a challenge to get the colours right

 

[Bloodhowl]

cheers man,

tbh I'm pretty crap with anything bar basic layering so trying to learn how to make my minis look awesome. I've picked up some retarder but wet blending still seems abit of a challenge to get the colours right

That has been my experience. With the wet blend, you are trying to mix the two colors and get all the midtones in between on the blend with out making a bloody mess out of the two colors. For me it is far easier to mix and paint several layers/glazes, even if it may take a little bit more time.

 

[gilljoy]

Glazing is something I'd like to concentrate on since I've seen some amazing miniatures painted using it.

Just wondering see when thinning down glazes should the paint be very very transparent? As in you dont see colour when you first paint it just a damp mark?

 

[Bloodhowl]

Glazing is something I'd like to concentrate on since I've seen some amazing miniatures painted using it.

Just wondering see when thinning down glazes should the paint be very very transparent? As in you dont see colour when you first paint it just a damp mark?

You're going to hate this answer, but it depends on your personal preference. I like my paint thinned with water and some glaze medium to the consistency of skim milk, for highlights and shading. This leaves a very transparent, but noticeable layer of paint that fades a little once dry. For basecoating, I usually thin it 50/50 water to paint. Thinner paint will make the transitions much smoother between shades, but will require many, many more layers to get it to cover the way you want it. And you always have to be careful of getting the paint too thin. Too thin can cause the previous layer to lift off.

 

[gilljoy]

You're going to hate this answer, but it depends on your personal preference. I like my paint thinned with water and some glaze medium to the consistency of skim milk, for highlights and shading. This leaves a very transpernt, but noticeable layer of paint that fades a little once dry. For basecoating, I usually thin it 50/50 water to paint. Thinner paint will make the transitions much smoother between shades, but will require many, many more layers to get it to cover the way you want it. And you always have to be careful of getting the paint too thin. Too thin can cause the previous layer to lift off.

Suppose it would also depend on the colour, I'm trying to glaze with a bix of necron abis and ice blue to get a nice mid-tone for a high light of ice blue. Seems to go on very very chalky. Probably best If i just try and post some photos on tomorrow about it,

 

[Einion]

I've been practicing glazing / juicing (i think thats the right term) on some of my vampire count's spare sheilds. Just got a few questions on best way of going about glazing.

Just on the terminology, this is layering. Although when you're layering each layer is sort of a glaze strictly speaking it's more specifically used for transparent layers of paint used to colour an area - at an extreme, completely changing the colouring. So for example you can paint a yellow shirt in white and shades of grey and then glaze over it with transparent yellows, instead of doing the entire thing in yellow mixtures.

Should I be painting my shadow, mid tone or high light first and glazing up or down?

http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/showthread.php?8920-Method-question
http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/showthread.php?38971-Painting-Backwards

Also my second question, In general whats the quickest way of going about getting nice smooth transitions? Wet blending or glazing?

Wet blending is far faster, when it works.

Einion

 

[gilljoy]

Cheers for the links

Yea the terminology confused me, some places call it juicing others call it glazing others call it layering lol

 

[Einion]

Yea the terminology confused me, some places call it juicing others call it glazing others call it layering lol

It is easy to get confused when different words are used for the same thing (as well as the same words used to mean things that are slightly different). Juicing = glazing. Juicing is a totally unnecessary term that shouldn't have taken off; if I remember correctly it's from a slight mistranslation of the original Spanish to begin with, and anyway glazing is centuries old.

Layering is layering, that at least there isn't a wonderful new term for :sarcastic:

Einion

 

[gilljoy]

So layering = using lots of really thin layers and the transparancy of the paint to create a smooth transition.

Glazing = tinting a painted area with a colour.

Wet blending = mixing wet paints together to create a smooth transition.

Just got confused with layering because when I first started painting years ago I just thought layering was paint base colour, paint mid tone on top of that with no blending, paint highlight. Thats why I got mixed up

 

[gilljoy]

Had a blast tonight.

First attempt on using thin layers to get a smooth transition.

View attachment 9659

What do you's think? I know some of its abit rough in places, still needs a few more layers of the mid coat and some of the highlight but overall I'm quite proud of my first go.

Edit: btw its grey primer I'm using which just happens to be almost the same colour as bare plastic

 

[Einion]

Given the gigantic enlargement and that you're just starting out on layering this looks pretty good. Like with anything you'll get better just with practice - you'll get a feel for what works and doesn't work by seeing the difference(s) firsthand.

If it fits in with what you need in terms of results and production speed, one thing you might like to try in due course is more intermediary shades. So instead of layering one highlight and one shadow colour thinly over the midtone (three colours) you'll start with a medium highlight and shadow respectively, then layer over those in the lightest and darkest areas with the final highlight and shadow colours (five colours).

Einion

 

[breff007]

Had a blast tonight.

First attempt on using thin layers to get a smooth transition.

What do you's think? I know some of its abit rough in places, still needs a few more layers of the mid coat and some of the highlight but overall I'm quite proud of my first go.

Edit: btw its grey primer I'm using which just happens to be almost the same colour as bare plastic

For a first attempt that's pretty damn good!
The way I layer is to get as smooth as I can first time round. It's never 100% but should be pretty good. There will be a few areas that are a bit rough but overall it should be pretty smooth. I then glaze the whole area with a very thin glaze of the original color. The glaze should be a lot thinner than the paint you used when layering. It will be almost transparent but will help smooth the transitions between layers.
Then I have another look. There will still be a couple of rough patches. This time instead of glazing the whole area I just concentrate on one roughish area at a time and just glaze that small section. There should be very little paint on your brush and it should be very thin. You will see it dry almost immediately and should see very little difference. Keep doing this until the change between layers has smoothed out. It does take time and practice to get really, really smooth layering but you first attempt is a good way along the road to that.


So, Layer --> Glaze whole area --> Check --> Glaze small area

Don't obsess either. When I started I would try and get everything perfect. It would take for ever and I never got anything finished, I just got sick of the sight of the mini and went to something else. It's much better to get a mini finished looking pretty good then having it sit on a shelf unfinished but with one very smoothly painted right shoulder. Move on to the next one, you'll have learnt some more and the next one will be better.

It does take practice but you’ve made a really good start! You find that a lot depends on the brand of paint you use, some need more thinning than others. Even the different colors in the same brand of paint will be different (Some colors can be more translucent then others, like reds or yellows, some blues I find I have to thin more)

Don't worry about the ice palatte bit. The video showing how to mix up your colours to get smooth tranisitions is brilliant, helped me no end.
http://massivevoodoo.blogspot.com/2010/03/tutorial-ice-palette-blending-tutorial.html
http://massivevoodoo.blogspot.com/2010/11/blending-tutorial-part-2a.html

 

[Wyrmypops]

Space Wolves are a particularly good thing to use in getting to grips with transitions. Whichever technique is employed, the colours and paints that go with Space Wolves all relate and work with each other really well. They've all got a relatable amount of that hint of blue. Trying out new techniques with more awkward paints (purple, I'm looking at you) with differing amounts of the blue/red/yellow that make them, that'd add a load of extra "aigh" to the mastering of a new technique.

Although, if you incorporate that Space Wolfy foundation paint (Fenris Grey) then that'll add a few technical hiccups. Those foundation paints are such a different beast. A different equation of strength, so adding 50% of that to 50% of something else isn't going to result in a tone directly between the two paints. Would also remain a great deal thicker than regular acrylic, then you get into thinning them down which with a foundation paint and a regular acrylic in the mix is gonna throw it all spinning further. The amount of thinner/water to get a foundation paint suitable for thin coats would be much more than neccesary for a regular acrylic.

Quite a tightrope walking act. But with technique practice and getting familiar with the paints it does get instinctive. The zoomed in pic looks a remarkable start.

 

[gilljoy]

Thanks for all the positive comments everyone

For a first attempt that's pretty damn good!
The way I layer is to get as smooth as I can first time round. It's never 100% but should be pretty good. There will be a few areas that are a bit rough but overall it should be pretty smooth. I then glaze the whole area with a very thin glaze of the original color. The glaze should be a lot thinner than the paint you used when layering. It will be almost transparent but will help smooth the transitions between layers.
Then I have another look. There will still be a couple of rough patches. This time instead of glazing the whole area I just concentrate on one roughish area at a time and just glaze that small section. There should be very little paint on your brush and it should be very thin. You will see it dry almost immediately and should see very little difference. Keep doing this until the change between layers has smoothed out. It does take time and practice to get really, really smooth layering but you first attempt is a good way along the road to that.


So, Layer --> Glaze whole area --> Check --> Glaze small area

Don't obsess either. When I started I would try and get everything perfect. It would take for ever and I never got anything finished, I just got sick of the sight of the mini and went to something else. It's much better to get a mini finished looking pretty good then having it sit on a shelf unfinished but with one very smoothly painted right shoulder. Move on to the next one, you'll have learnt some more and the next one will be better.

It does take practice but you’ve made a really good start! You find that a lot depends on the brand of paint you use, some need more thinning than others. Even the different colors in the same brand of paint will be different (Some colors can be more translucent then others, like reds or yellows, some blues I find I have to thin more)

Don't worry about the ice palatte bit. The video showing how to mix up your colours to get smooth tranisitions is brilliant, helped me no end.
http://massivevoodoo.blogspot.com/2010/03/tutorial-ice-palette-blending-tutorial.html
http://massivevoodoo.blogspot.com/2010/11/blending-tutorial-part-2a.html

Those videos really helped me understand how to wet blend, thank you soo much. Going to try this tomorrow with some old lord of the rings miniatures
Tried some more blending on the space wolf today, managed to get some nice transitions and some not so nice lol Gota keep practicing I think. It's almost finished bar the highlights now

Need to figure out a good setup for taking pictures but I'll try and post some updated pics soon.



Yea I was glazing with the fenris grey foundation, It's a lovely colour but just have to wash it down alot more than normal paints. Need to try and clean up the mid-tone but it seems quite tricky so far. Really enjoying learning how to paint it so far.

 

[Wyrmypops]

I've found the Foundation paints more trouble than they're worth incorporating into the various blending processes. They're great for what they're designed for, strong solid basecoats, but what makes them good at that makes them tricksy for more fiddly stuff. I'd use them for providing a solid basecoat, then highlighting up from them. Then, once you've highlighted up to a point they're no longer in the mix you can carry on with regular acrylics without having to factor in all the variances the foundation strength paints throw into the mixing equations.

 

[Estragon]

I only know two-brush blending and for that, Foundations seem fine.

 

[gilljoy]

guys probably a stupid question,

See if I'm using a wet palette ( making on this week) Am I right in thinking that I dont need to water down the paints?

 

[Wicksy]

gilljoy, i find you still do. it depends on how its set up though. when i used tracing paper i didnt need to water them down. now i've switched to parchment i am watering them down as per normal. tracing paper lets a lot more water through than parchment due to the gaps in the paper weave and the fibre density. i also found with tracing paper the medium tended to dissappear, screwing my paints up after too long on the pallette (> 1 week)