Employment Law Help (UK)

Talion

New member
Any lawyers in the house?

In my current company they have a 100% accuracy policy. In other words we have to get every part of our job 100% correct of they aren\'t happy. Which isn\'t possible.

Today they decided to issue us all a letter stating that this is an \"Unofficial Written Warning\" regarding this 100% accuracy policy.........anyway it says that if we continue like this we could be given an official warning.

I was wondering what are my legal rights, is there anything that says they have to give you a certain error percentage. I have a clear employment record, and would like to prepare myself if they decide to start issuing official warnings, I can then wave something in their face and threaten them with an employment tribunal.
 

waghorn41

New member
It dpends on the exact wording of your contract of employment. As an ex union official I had to take a few apart sentence by sentence and analyse just what was a requirment or an inference.
If it says \'you must be ..\' then it\'s cut and dried but if it says \'you are expected..\' that\'s a different matter.
It also depends whether 100% is deemed reasonable to achieve in that job. \'Reasonable\' would be subject to interpretation depending on various factors. Is that any help?
 

Talion

New member
Originally posted by waghorn41
It dpends on the exact wording of your contract of employment. As an ex union official I had to take a few apart sentence by sentence and analyse just what was a requirment or an inference.
If it says \'you must be ..\' then it\'s cut and dried but if it says \'you are expected..\' that\'s a different matter.
It also depends whether 100% is deemed reasonable to achieve in that job. \'Reasonable\' would be subject to interpretation depending on various factors. Is that any help?

I\'llhave to read the contract, as for reasonable to achieve the job. My job is a trainer but it comes with a shed load of administration - more paper work than I\'ve ever need to fill. Each form as it\'s own specific coding and boxes. Basically they are saying if we don\'t see all our clients within set time limits then, we aren\'t doing our job, yet if we don\'t complete all the administration with 100% accuracy then again we aren\'t doing our job.

I\'m looking for work to get out of the job. Staff turn-over is 1 resignation a month for the past 13 months. This is their management style (threatning).
 

waghorn41

New member
Originally posted by Talion
My job is a trainer but it comes with a shed load of administration - more paper work than I\'ve ever need to fill. Each form as it\'s own specific coding and boxes. Basically they are saying if we don\'t see all our clients within set time limits then, we aren\'t doing our job, yet if we don\'t complete all the administration with 100% accuracy then again we aren\'t doing our job.

The information you\'ve just given in those couple of sentences throws up a shed load of questions. From what you\'ve implied I think they, the company, may be \'unreasonable\'. But, as I say, there are too many questions to be certain.
 

generulpoleaxe

New member
unoficial written warnings are nothing more than intimidation.
keep the letter and anything else such as an email incase you need them for unfair dismissal in the future.

the contract is unreasonable as nobody can keep up all of the time.
many contracts nowadays are not worth the paper they are written on.
just do your job as best you can, by the way, i heard their is a butlers job going at downing street and they aren\'t fussy about people needing to do any task correctly.
 

Spacemunkie

New member
Don\'t forget about GMB:

GMB homepage...

For little over 10 quid a month, it might be worth signing up if things are looking like going pear-shaped.

You\'re also entitled to see EVERYTHING that the company has on file about you under the Data Protection Act. I think it costs 10 quid. I\'d only do this if things started looking really bleak, but it would give you ammunition if you discovered that there was little or no evidence to support a dismissal.

Sounds like a company gearing up for mass redundancies without wanting to make the payout to me. Doubtful if they could get away with it....
 

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Originally posted by Spacemunkie
Sounds like a company gearing up for mass redundancies without wanting to make the payout to me. Doubtful if they could get away with it....
I have to agree with Scott here that does sound like a means to an end.
Get an appointment with Citizens Advice Bureau as soon as possible, they should be able to give you the immediate advice and point you in the right direction for more complex advice on employment law.
 

jerry kurl

New member
The employment rules pertaining to dismissal are strict. They have a shed load of hoops to jump through if they want to fire you, and with letters like unooficial warning bouncing around the place they obviously dont have a clue what half of these laws are, as dragonsreach said get down to the CAB and get help there they are great. With warnings they have to give you a verbal warning, then two written warnings i think and then there is re-training etc and these all have to be within a certain timeframe and ALL of them have to relate to the same issue and im afraid saying that you have to work to 100% whatever it is you do is just plain ridiculous in employment terms! good luck and dont let them get you down, if you dont think you get enough help from CAB nealry all reasonably sized solicitors will have a weekly workshop where you can get an hour or so free of charge to discuss these sort of things and if you have home insurance you can usually claim on that for the solicitors fees if you have to take it to tribunal although they will only take it on if they belive they can win.
 

Amazon warrior

New member
Originally posted by Spacemunkie
Sounds like a company gearing up for mass redundancies without wanting to make the payout to me. Doubtful if they could get away with it....
Yeah. Someone tried to pull a stunt like that on my Mum once. She was working as the matron of a nursing home that was being badly run by the owner - Mum\'d only recently taken the post and almost immediately wished she hadn\'t. Unsurprisingly, the home ran out of money due to this stupid woman\'s mis-management, and in an attempt to dodge pay-outs she tried to dismiss Mum on completely trumped-up grounds. We fought and got an unfair dismissal result, but Mum still never saw her last month\'s wages from there because there was simply no money to be had. At least she escaped without much of a stain on her CV, tho. Really, it makes me wonder how some people can get to sleep at night. :rolleyes:
 

Talion

New member
Cheers guys I did a little bit on employment law when I was manager and know it\'s a lengthy process.

I think it\'s intimidation, but having never need to intimidate any of my staff, I just wanted to see what you guys thought.

I\'ll keep a copy of the letter and if they try any thing further will see the CAB.
 

Mr.S.Marbo

New member
Originally posted by Talion
Any lawyers in the house?

In my current company they have a 100% accuracy policy. In other words we have to get every part of our job 100% correct of they aren\'t happy. Which isn\'t possible.

I was wondering what are my legal rights, is there anything that says they have to give you a certain error percentage. I have a clear employment record, and would like to prepare myself if they decide to start issuing official warnings, I can then wave something in their face and threaten them with an employment tribunal.

I am not a lawyer at all and don\'t have any legal qualifications however I have been a low level trade union rep, and did a year of employment law as part of my degree (which admittedly was a long time ago!).

If I remember right and from my old notes and books dismissal on grounds of performance is mostly governed by common law (cases that have gone on previously) more than Statutes (Acts of Parliament and laws passed by government).

Dismissal can be normally be fair if it is due to your capability in a job. (a bit about capability is here. Generally if you do not do your job to the \"required standard\" then this could be a fair reason for dismissal.

However with all things it\'s never this simple. An Employment Tribunal would have to in this case be satisfied that this was the reason for the dismissal AND that the employer \"acted reasonably in the circumstances (including the size and administrative resources of the undertaking) in treating that reason as sufficient to justify dismissing the employee.\" See here.

The following cases give an idea of how the legal system decides on that last point that is in bold.

- If an employee\'s work is criticized generally s/he must usually be given the chance to improve it with training and supervision [/i]Davison v. Kent 1975[/i].

- Length of service and previous work record must be taken into account. In Tiptool v. Curtis 1973 a workers 20 years satisfactory service apart from one or two complaints was taken into account by the Tribunal when he was sacked for doing one job badly (the Tribunal found in the employee\'s favour - they considered firing him straight away was not reasonable).

- The employer must be prepared to specify and prove reasonable grounds for making the decision and the employee is able to produce evidence in his/her favour. In Raynor v. Remploy 1973 an employee produced figures that challenged his employers view of his ability. He also produced evidence of problems that he got landed with when he started the job. His dismissal was found to be unfair.

- \"It is broadly true to say that an employee should not lose his job because he makes an \'honest mistake\'. But the question is one of degree, and we cannot say that all employees are entitled to make mistakes regardless of their consequences or of the basic lack of ability which the mistake may indicate.\" Michael Whincup Ll.B, Ll.M, Barrister at Law.

What I think he is basically saying is that if the mistake is minor, the consequences small (for example you are not a doctor, airline pilot, health and safety consultant etc..) and there is no big lack of ability, then a Tribunal may well find a dismissal for a minor honest mistake unfair.

Wow I have waffled on... by the way www.acas.gov.uk provides free employment law advice and they have a helpline too. Bear in mind what I learnt may now be a bit out of date and that I have no legal qualifications, but I think at least you now have an idea of evidence to keep about your performance in case the worst should happen and things like that....
 
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