Difference between spray primers and airbrush primers

[shaun5603]

Normally I use spray primer, but with winter and colder temps that's not ideal, plus with both zombiecide Black Plague and kingdom death monsters sitting on my work bench I have ton of priming to do and painting over all.

I use wide range of spray on primers from GW modelmate army painter ect, so I know how each brand covers and which ones best suited for type of models.

But I never used airbrush primers; so which brands are ideal to use, color range and give off a good surface to work on.

i have seen Vallejo brands airbrush ready primers. And other recommendations or tips on using them.

Is is there different psi levels needed?

What about needle size?

Right now I am using a Iwata micron CM-C plus with .2mm needle and smart jet Compressor. Is the need to small for priming work? Normally I run paint thur at 14-20psi level.

 

[Zab]

I like badger or vallejo. Badger is the best though IMO because it is tough and sandable. Their white goes on better than vallejo's too. I push them both undiluted through my patriot 105 with no problems. That needle may be a bit small for badger because it's pretty thick but the vallejo would be fine

 

[airhead]

Waste of a CM for primer. A cheap external mix single action would be fine for priming. You are typically more fogging than shooting lines.

Kinda depends on what you are priming? Armies for tabletop play? Get a rattle can.
Personally, I've never found a water based primer to be as good as a rattle can primer (with the exception of GW stuff - worse than water based).
Try the inexpensive automotive primers (Dupli-Color) that you can pick up from the big box stores or even Krylon primers.

Entry for painting competition? Try either the automotive rattle cans or Tamiya for a very smooth matt finish.

 

[shaun5603]

Thanks,

I use badeger ghost tints a lot really like them. What do you grade sandpaper do use? Normal if I sanding something it's remove details I don't want, haven't try sanding primer before.

For the zombiecide stuff the bulk of it is going to be done to table top level.
for the KD monster stuff, more to competition grade.

What size needle or single action would be recommend?

 

[airhead]

Only time I use sandpaper is to level the base up. A bit of 220 wet/dry and scoot the mini around on it til it sets even.

For primer, a .3 to .5 needle should put out enough volume to wet fog a mini.

 

[Zab]

well i don't typically sand after priming, but sometimes those mold lines magically appear. True story You could try this one: http://loserstudio.blogspot.ca/2015/12/sparmax-max-4-airbrush-review.html or any $40 ebay chinese knock off from ebay for priming.

 

[shaun5603]

Ok cool I'll look around for one stateside.

never though about picking up a knock off. Do they hold up well?

Yeah man I swear mold lines grow back.

 

[Sicks]

I don't know much about airbush primers but I wanted to say ya lucky guy for having your zombicide already mine is en route and I'm practically internet stalking the parcel across Europe, not had any update since early hours of Saturday though

 

[Splurch]

As Zab mentioned, Vallejo (Has many colors) and Badger (just White/Grey/Black) are both great. Going into it a little more, Vallejo primer is a lot smoother and easier to apply. IMO it is a bit more forgiving if you overspray and it does a great job putting on a consistent coat. Badger is a bit trickier to apply, as you need a larger needle and a stronger psi (.5 or larger suggested on the back at 20-30psi, I find that 30 is often just a tad too much and tend to adjust it a few psi lower.) Badger is a good bit thicker then Vallejo so it is trickier to get that consistent coat on and harder to work with (I hated it at first because I tried to apply it just like Vallejo, which didn't work out, they are very different primers and act as such.) Badger's white primer is also fantastic, whereas Vallejo's is terrible (and it's the only color I have had trouble with for Vallejo Primer.) The biggest downside to Vallejo Primer is that if you have to clean a mold line you missed or file some material after the figure has been primed you have to be extremely careful as it does not like being messed with after it has been applied. They both have positives and negatives but either will do the job.

Even so, unless you want to prime white, I would recommend starting with Vallejo as it will be easier to work with and should spray through a .2 needle (although you're going to deal with a lot of dry tip at that size.) Badger simply wont work with a .2 needle. That being said, I'd also recommend you get a new brush if you want to prime as the one you have is absolutely overkill for priming and you'll find it much faster and easier with a bigger needle. I'd recommend a Badger Patriot 105, under $60 on amazon right now and it comes with a .5 needle. It's a great workhorse for priming/basecoating/sealing and is very easy to disassemble and clean, which is critical when you prime as missing even a bit of primer when you clean your brush can leave a surprisingly strong bond.

 

[shaun5603]

Thanks,

will that badger model work with smart jet Compressor or would I need to get different hook up?

 

[Splurch]

You'll need to get a different hook up, Badger uses smaller connections. They sell a number of adapters though for whatever size you need which you can probably find on Amazon. I would recommend getting a quick disconnect system, Iwata and Badger both make them. Essentially you put a female piece on the hose and each airbrush would get a male piece. Then, rather then screwing them on/off each time they just pop right off. If you purchased additional brushes in the future you just pick up another quick disconnect and you're good. You also wouldn't need to worry about an additional adapter, since the hose/brushes would have their own connector that ends in a quick disconnect rather then whatever size hose/hole they use. The Iwata one would work identically but would be sized for Iwata brushes. I know that Badger's system makes quick disconnect adapters compatible with Iwata brushes (Paasch and others as well.) I assume Iwata's system makes adapters for other companies but I don't know for sure. If you're interested in it then make sure they do, otherwise go with badger as the quick disconnect will add some length to the hose connection point and adding adapters on top of the quick disconnects will start to add up space wise and might interfere with how you use the brush. It is a huge convenience not only for switching airbrushes but for cleaning or doing anything that is easier when you remove the brush.

Edit: Also, while looking up some info on this, it looks like Badgers primer (Stynylrez) now has a green, red and yellow color available.

Edit2: Kept looking up info, it seems that the badger qd system only has the female (hose part) that fits their hoses, so you would need an adapter for your hose as well. It is just the male (brush part) that they make in different sizes for compatibility with different brands.

 

[shaun5603]

Ok cool thanks,

I think my smart jet came with other hook ups. I'll have to check my bits box. I don't forsee it being a issue switching out the hoses. But a quick disconnect would make things easier.

is the curing time the same with badger,Vallejo as spray primers?

 

[airhead]

I've got all my airbrush hoses threaded to a standard 1/4" air hose quick connect.
View attachment 44527
either male
View attachment 44528
or female as required

Then my manifold has the other end of the quick connects. This allows multiple airbrushes to be connected at once.
Most AB hoses have a 1/4" female end. A bit of Teflon tape and some fittings and you are in business.

 

[Splurch]

As for curing time, I've read of issues that people have with Vallejo taking a day to really cure so that it doesn't rub off and badger a few hours. Both are dry to the touch within a matter of minutes, just like spray primer. The only time I've ever had some rub off is with metal mini's at the edges. And talking about it has reminded me that if you're painting metal, I'd say use Badger as it seems to adhere a bit better (whereas on plastic/resin there isn't a difference.) I've painted on both within an hour of priming with no issues but have since gone to waiting at least a day between prime/paint just to be cautious.

 

[shaun5603]

That works, for most part it's plastic and resin. A few of the old 2ed blood angles metal models.

out of habit and amount stuff I work on I normally give at lest day, or longer when work send me way.

I am going pick up few of each brand and try them out, using the zombiecide as tester models.

 

[Splurch]

Sounds like a good plan, just remember to avoid Vallejo's white. Look forward to hearing how it goes

 

[shaun5603]

Yeah will do.

i seen that badger make spray varnishes are they worth it? Or is better to stick with spray can stuff

 

[Splurch]

Varnish through your airbrush is definitely worth it, although I don't have any experience with Badger's. I used to use Vallejo Gloss and that worked well but it was a bit too thick for my liking and is not a non-yellowing formula (although I never had it yellow on a mini, so switching was probably just my paranoia). I currently use Liquitex High Gloss Varnish, which has a great consistency and is non-yellowing. It comes in amounts from 4oz to 1 gallon and is a great price. My only issue with it, and it is a big one imo, is that it seems to take months and months to fully cure before I cant scratch off bits of it with a fingernail. It dries crystal clear though and any overspray that causes pooling in an area dries to the point that you'd never know too much was applied. I also use liqutex matte varnish, but applied through a thin needle at high psi so that the outer layer just gets enough to kill the shine, rather then spray all over the model.

I've tried a few other brands as well and Vallejo and Liquitex seem to work best, I just don't use Vallejo due to it not being non-yellow as I don't even want to risk it happening.

 

[shaun5603]

I have use different liquitex products in pass, never ran anything thur the airbrush don't want to damage it, but sense looking at picking up another one for prep work so it will be heavy duty work.

so maybe I'll give them try,

 

[Splurch]

Yeah understandable, I wouldn't want to put varnish through a CM-C either If you get the Badger 105 once you get it you can see its pretty easy to clean after using. I had to fully take mine apart shortly after I got it years ago when some paint dried in it but have never had to since. All I do to clean it after a session (whether with primer, paint or varnish) is alternate running windex and water through it until it looks fine. Put some water in and pull the needle in/out a bit to clear out the gunk in the back until that motion doesn't dirty the water and then fully take out the needle, wipe it down and put it back. The whole process takes only a few minutes, with most of the time determined by how many windex/water cycles I need to go through at the start. You can also get a .4 or .3 needle for it (have to get matching heads/nozzles as well) if you find the .5 too big for varnish.