Clarification on the attackcard hate and bombs

[Candle]

Hello all.


Hate is a Ranged Attack with 3 attack dice. It is magic.
Special Effect: "If this rolls any (crit) against a Hero, exhaust all of his cards, unless he takes 2 extra Wounds."

My questions:
1. If the defending player has no unexhausted cards and the attacking player rolls a crit, does the defending player automatically take 2 wounds?
2. Does the rule Self Sacrifise prevent the defending player from taking wounds if he has only 1 life left and no unexhausted cards?
The defending player cant take 2 Wounds otherwise he would die, but he cant exhaust his cards, because he has no cards to exhaust.

My answers are:
1. Yes the defending player takes 2 Wounds.
2. No Self Sacrifise doesnt prevent the defending player from taking wounds.
Therefore if the attacking player chooses to attack a hero who has no unexhausted cards left and rolls a crit, the defending player always suffers 2 wounds.
So the defending player can only choose if he has a unexhausted cards left.



Bombs
http://arcadiaquest.com/dl/AQ-Rulebook.pdf

My major questions:
1. Is the defeding player staying on a bomb token right after the attacking player hits him with a bomb attack?
2. If so. Does the bomb token trigger immediately or do you need to move onto it? They use the term "enter".
3. Are the bomb tokens separate from the attacking player,so only the kill credit is related the bomb token to the bomb token owner?

My short answers:
1. Yes.
2. No it trigges only if a enemy player enters a space with a bomb token.
3. Yes they are separate. Only the kill credit is related. The bomb is a mini trap, which can be defended.

My thoughts to my answers:
If the attacking player attacks the defending player with a bomb, the attack is resolved as normal.
If the defending player has 4 spaces close to him which are free spaces, you now place 5 guild tokens from the attacking player on the board. The 4 spaces around the defending player are filled with one guild token and the place where the defending player is staying is also filled with a guild token from the attacking player.
The bomb on which the defending player is staying at the moment doesnt trigger. The guild token bombs only trigger if a player moves onto a bomb token.

If an enemy player moves onto a bomb guild token, the attack dice from the original bomb attack card are rolled and the hits from it can be blocked from the defending player. The bomb token is treated like a trap or a bomb guard reaction which can be defend with defense rolls. So the bomb token is stated like it is a separate unit who has its own attack power. Therefore the attack from the bomb can only be blocked or suffered.
The defending player abilitys can only effect the bomb, not the attacking player who layed the bomb down.
The only relationship between the attacking player and the bomb is the kill credit from the bomb over the defending player.


Is my conclusion right?
I appreciate a dialoge.

Thanks for helping me to get the facts right!
In light
candle

And thank you for your time.


Edit: Summary!

The conclusions in this post about the Bombs are correct .

The conclusions in this post about Hate are completely wrong. Please read the comments below.

 

[Loophole Master]

Yep, all your conclusions are correct.

 

[Trigoras]

Hate is a Ranged Attack with 3 attack dice. It is magic.
Special Effect: "If this rolls any (crit) against a Hero, exhaust all of his cards, unless he takes 2 extra Wounds."

My questions:
1. If the defending player has no unexhausted cards and the attacking player rolls a crit, does the defending player automatically take 2 wounds?
2. Does the rule Self Sacrifise prevent the defending player from taking wounds if he has only 1 life left and no unexhausted cards?
The defending player cant take 2 Wounds otherwise he would die, but he cant exhaust his cards, because he has no cards to exhaust.

My answers are:
1. Yes the defending player takes 2 Wounds.
2. No Self Sacrifise doesnt prevent the defending player from taking wounds.
Therefore if the attacking player chooses to attack a hero who has no unexhausted cards left and rolls a crit, the defending player always suffers 2 wounds.
So the defending player can only choose if he has a unexhausted cards left.

Weird, the card hate nor the rules state that the player must have un-exhausted cards in order to choose that option. So far we've played it where attacking that player with Hate does nothing if all their stuff is already exhausted since that player would be choosing to exhaust all their cards.

 

[Loophole Master]

You can't choose something you cannot do. If you choose to exhaust cards instead of taking extra damage, you need to have at least one card to exhaust.

The Queen of Beggars is similar, you have to choose between giving her an Exploration token or taking a Wound. You can't choose to give her a token if you have none to give.

 

[rejn]

You can't choose something you cannot do. If you choose to exhaust cards instead of taking extra damage, you need to have at least one card to exhaust.

The Queen of Beggars is similar, you have to choose between giving her an Exploration token or taking a Wound. You can't choose to give her a token if you have none to give.

The way I read Hate is The effect goes off unless you choose to do something else.

So... the hero exhausts all of his cards(regardless of what is exhausted), unless he decides to take the damage.

The card isnt a choose this or that effect. But rather this effect triggers unless he decides to take the damage.

The argue could be made that he cannot choose to take the damage if it would kill him per the self sacrafice rules, But the self sacrifice rules apply specifically to the "active hero".

Thoughts?
I'm interested to see what loophole thinks about this.

 

[Fatewalker]

Hey Everyone,

So I have a different interpretation of this ruling, and I am hoping this may be up for debate before going into an official Errata.

1. I would like to point out there is nothing in the rules that prevents a card from being exhausted multiple times, just ruling that exhausted cards can’t be used. So if your cards are exhausted once, why can’t you do it again?

2. Your hero card is considered a card too, so you would need to exhaust him.

3. If we are going by what the card states, and you have to have cards unexhausted , then would you not need to include the “all” in that statement? In other words if you can’t exhaust all of your cards then you take 2 wounds?

4. Do Death Curses count as an unexhausted card? Can they be Exhausted? If so , does it lose it's power?

I am not sure I am fully comfortable with making Hate so powerful as to say that you can’t exhaust cards more than once ( Unless your Maya), or that you take the wounds no matter what if all your cards are exhausted.

Thoughts, or does the current ruling stand?

 

[rrrrupp]

Hey Everyone,

So I have a different interpretation of this ruling, and I am hoping this may be up for debate before going into an official Errata.

1. I would like to point out there is nothing in the rules that prevents a card from being exhausted multiple times, just ruling that exhausted cards can’t be used. So if your cards are exhausted once, why can’t you do it again?

2. Your hero card is considered a card too, so you would need to exhaust him.

3. If we are going by what the card states, and you have to have cards unexhausted , then would you not need to include the “all” in that statement? In other words if you can’t exhaust all of your cards then you take 2 wounds?

4. Do Death Curses count as an unexhausted card? Can they be Exhausted? If so , does it lose it's power?

I am not sure I am fully comfortable with making Hate so powerful as to say that you can’t exhaust cards more than once ( Unless your Maya), or that you take the wounds no matter what if all your cards are exhausted.

Thoughts, or does the current ruling stand?

1.) It's pretty obvious that you can only exhaust a card a single time... it's kind of the meaning of exhaust. Maya is an exception because her special power lets you exhaust each card twice (further reinforcing the point that normally you can only exhaust each card once).
2.) Yes
3.) The all is needed because it exhausts all of your cards.
4.) Death curses can't be exhausted.

It doesn't change much... it's extremely rare (at least from our 6 games that we've played) that all of your cards are used up... even less rare that you get targeted with Hate when this happens. It's probably worse to get targeted with Hate when you have 0 cards exhausted though

I agree it's a good thing to errata because I probably would have said you can still choose to exhaust even if all your cards are exhausted (but I understand the ruling where you can't since you aren't exhausting a single card).

Don't forget, your hero card is also a card so it will be extremely rare that all of your abilities are exhausted and your hero card is... very rare.

 

[Fatewalker]

So Card should read

"Exhaust all cards that are unexhausted to a minimum of 1 or take two wounds" Possibly with a note that Curses and Permanents are not able to be exhausted.

 

[Candle]

The way I read Hate is The effect goes off unless you choose to do something else.

So... the hero exhausts all of his cards(regardless of what is exhausted), unless he decides to take the damage.

The card isnt a choose this or that effect. But rather this effect triggers unless he decides to take the damage.

The argue could be made that he cannot choose to take the damage if it would kill him per the self sacrafice rules, But the self sacrifice rules apply specifically to the "active hero".

Thoughts?
I'm interested to see what loophole thinks about this.

Hello together.

Thanks for the clarity. I was blinded by my greed to win because I was the attacking player and wanted the defending player to be dead.

At the moment I see the things as rejn sees it.
If the attacking player rolls a Crit he is activating the special effect of the card.
The special effect itself is going to exhaust all cards of the defending player.

Now the defending player can choose to take 2 wounds and negate the special effect. If he doesnt negate it, the special effect exhaust all cards no matter what.
If the defending player has no unexhausted card the special effect fails.

Self sacrifise isnt a point anymore, because the defending player is never forced to take 2 wounds and also never active.




My only question now is:
With all cards you said that even the hero card is mentioned. Are you sure?
Hate says: "all of the heros cards" . Is the hero card also his card or is it himself?
I would say the hero card is separate from the other cards. The hero possesses the attack and boost cards but does he possess himself?
In my opinion only the inventory is the target.

If you look at the Refreshing Potion in the rulebook on page 25. Does the refreshing potion also unexhaust the hero card or only the cards he possesses?
Is rest the only way to unexhaust the hero card?


Best wishes
Candle

Ps: Permanent cards can never be exhausted no matter what.
Death Curses can never be exhausted.
Both cards are immune to exhaustion.

 

[Trigoras]

Hello together.

Thanks for the clarity. I was blinded by my greed to win because I was the attacking player and wanted the defending player to be dead.

At the moment I see the things as rejn sees it.
If the attacking player rolls a Crit he is activating the special effect of the card.
The special effect itself is going to exhaust all cards of the defending player.

Now the defending player can choose to take 2 wounds and negate the special effect. If he doesnt negate it, the special effect exhaust all cards no matter what.
If the defending player has no unexhausted card the special effect fails.

Self sacrifise isnt a point anymore, because the defending player is never forced to take 2 wounds and also never active.




My only question now is:
With all cards you said that even the hero card is mentioned. Are you sure?
Hate says: "all of the heros cards" . Is the hero card also his card or is it himself?
I would say the hero card is separate from the other cards. The hero possesses the attack and boost cards but does he possess himself?
In my opinion only the inventory is the target.

If you look at the Refreshing Potion in the rulebook on page 25. Does the refreshing potion also unexhaust the hero card or only the cards he possesses?
Is rest the only way to unexhaust the hero card?


Best wishes
Candle

Ps: Permanent cards can never be exhausted no matter what.
Death Curses can never be exhausted.
Both cards are immune to exhaustion.

Above is how my group plays it. We also do not exhaust the hero card based on the rules of the refreshing potion as you stated.

Rulebook - page25

Refreshing Potion - An active Hero may freely
discard this token during his turn to unexhaust all
of his cards, removing all Guild tokens from the
cards belonging to that Hero.

 

[rrrrupp]

Refreshing potions refresh your hero power. It's considered a card and should be treated as such. It get exhausted from Hate and un-exhausted from the potion.

 

[Loophole Master]

Yes, that is correct.

 

[Candle]

I think you are right.
Refreshing potion refreshes the hero card, Hate exhausts the hero card.

Here is an old version of the card Hate it says: Exhaust all of target´s Attack cards.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/arcadia-quest/posts/770980
The new Hate card says: Exhaust all of his cards.

Well spotted guys!

 

[Kangataz]

I'm a little confused. I guess official ruling has stated that you can kill someone with hate if he has no more cards to exhaust. This is not what my interpretation was for the hate card....

but I guess the caveat is even if all the attack cards have been exhausted, a player can still choose to exhaust his hero card first, before taking the wounds....

is this legit loophole master?

 

[Trigoras]

Based on the ruling, the hero card is a card owned by the hero and therefore opens that option up to the defending player to choose.

 

[Loophole Master]

Yes, if your Hero card is not exhausted, you can still exhaust it to avoid suffering the extra Hate damage.

 

[Holy Inquisitor]

My further questions to Hate:

1./
Does it only need to roll a Crit to get the extra effect or does it need to damage the target hero for the extra effect?
My assumption is it has to damage the hero, otherwise the attack missed.

2./
Can you exhaust your hero card if you do not have an ability that normally would require to do so?
For example, can Diva exhaust her hero card?

Thanks for any clarification

 

[Trigoras]

1. The attack only needs to roll a crit. It does not need to cause wounds.

2. Yes. In your example, Diva could still have equipment that would interact with her hero card.

 

[Granthas]

Hello everybody!!
I am new to Arcadia quest.
I find it really enjoying and as i saw there are some conclusions about bomb mechanics.So I would like to make a question.
Lets say that Red Guild and Green Guild, both have a bomb at the same space. And a member from the Blue Guild steps on that space. What happens there?
Who makes the attack? And how can this damage get solved in a single attack when two different bombs are in there?