chalky

[scottjames]

I\'ve posted before about a chalky effect I get when I try to improve my blending. Seems as soon as try applying multiple very thin layers, it just dries chalky. It\'s driven me quite mad for around 6 months now, but I\'ve just read in an article:

\"Don’t be cheap here, tap water in most cities tends to leave a chalky residue when it dries. Knowing that all kind of funny chemicals are in it, makes me very cautious, so I rather stay on the safe side and use distilled water for all my painting needs.\"

So today I start using distilled water. Here\'s hoping ... =)

 

[scottjames]

actually is mineral/bottled drinking water just as good, or is distilled water from an art shop much better?

 

[PegaZus]

Don\'t buy mineral water! The minerals are what is (possibly) causing the chalkiness with the tap water. And don\'t buy distilled water from an art shop as I imagine they\'ll charge you a lot for it. I bought a gallon of distilled water from my local grocery store for $1.

 

[Beelzebrush]

Sounds like you\'re thinning your paint too much without using a medium. The water thins the acrylic binder to the point where it destabilises the paint, leaving just the pigment - hence the chalky finish you\'re getting.

Add a glaze/matte medium/extender or just a dash of deterget to your mix if you want to thin to this extent... it\'ll definitely help.

Btw... tap water is fine.

 

[scottjames]

Hi. I dont know what you mean by glaze/matte medium/extender. Can you give product examples? By detergent, do you mean something like washing up liquid?

 

[Beelzebrush]

There you are

http://www.artsupplies.co.uk/cat_fluid_mediums.htm

Aye a dash of washing up liquid should help...

 

[ScottRadom]

BB- would you add just a drop or two of the medium to the paint? Tough to answer without specifics but would you add about 1/4 of the medium as the water you\'ve added, or a similar approach?

 

[hestan101]

when im doing on off attempts mastre glaze blending, i was told to add the same amount of medium as i do paint, and ive never had any problems with chalkyness. its stuff like vallejo matte medium

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by scottjames
I\'ve posted before about a chalky effect I get when I try to improve my blending. Seems as soon as try applying multiple very thin layers, it just dries chalky.

I don\'t remember if there was a description in the last thread, are you getting something like white \'tide marks\' or limescale, or is the paint just drying a bit flat and dull looking (both are often described as chalky, although they usually have different causes).

If it might not be an issue with hard water - which is a definite problem in some parts of the UK - you could try thinning with W&N\'s Watercolour Blending Medium.

Einion

 

[ScottRadom]

Originally posted by hestan101
when im doing on off attempts mastre glaze blending, i was told to add the same amount of medium as i do paint, and ive never had any problems with chalkyness. its stuff like vallejo matte medium

TY Youngblood!

 

[scottjames]

Einion, I would describe the problem as \"tide marks.\"

On the one hand, I am told I cannot thin paint enough when applying thin layers. on the other, I am told if I thin it \"too much\" it will dry chalky. /Confused.

 

[Beelzebrush]

You just need to make sure that the components that make up the paint don\'t become separated by overthinning with water... medium will stop that... it\'s what it\'s for. As I mentioned above, you risk washing away the acrylic binder from the pigment when using lots and lots of water.

 

[DarkStar]

Originally posted by scottjames
Einion, I would describe the problem as \"tide marks.\"

On the one hand, I am told I cannot thin paint enough when applying thin layers. on the other, I am told if I thin it \"too much\" it will dry chalky. /Confused.

You need additive to your paint if thinning that far. If they\'re telling you to thin it down, they need to tell you to counteract the various bad things that happen to paint thinned that way with just water.

You need to add some kind of medium, flow improver, retarder, other things, all your choice, water alone, even purified isn\'t enough unless you have a high level of experience without using additives, as there are the odd painter out there who just uses water. But they are the exception to the rule, the rare berry in the bush etc...

So, for me peronsally I use W&N Flow Aid mixed in with a wee bit with my purified tap water, just about 1/10 parts or so not much. That\'s for regular painting (with thin layers). With glazing I\'ll go so far as to 1/1 ratio my Vallejo Matte Medium as mentioned depending on how thin I want to go. Generally I use oils for glazing though superior, sort of \"made\" for the effect with less hassle and more control, obviously no ringing or whatever to worry over with those.

Also, you can get really anal about everything and use purified rinse water, purified cleaning water for your brushes as well, to make sure you dont\' get impurities transferring or building up. I mean, sitting down for 8 hours and painting you will get crap from your water building up over time, I just use purified for everything, why not you know.

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by scottjames
Einion, I would describe the problem as \"tide marks.\"

On the one hand, I am told I cannot thin paint enough when applying thin layers. on the other, I am told if I thin it \"too much\" it will dry chalky. /Confused.

In that case the first thing I\'d suggest is maybe you\'re putting too much paint down. It has to be very dilute, but the brush should just be damp, not wet; you literally can have just enough paint on the brush that you can do a stroke and watch it dry in front of your eyes in warm weather.

So you dip the brush in the diluted paint then unload most of it, lots of people use a bit of clean paper or tissue for this. I usually use a damp brush, lightly load it and brush out a little just to one side on the palette surface; if that\'s a little too wet when I go to paint I\'ll roll the bristles on some cloth (scrap of denim usually).

Originally posted by DarkStar
You need additive to your paint if thinning that far.

No, you don\'t need to, it just helps - I don\'t get tide marks and I thin with water only about 99.9% of the time.

Einion

Edit: I use tap water - it\'s not a necessity to use distilled or purified water, depends on what your water supply is like in terms of mineral content.

 

[Beelzebrush]

Aye, as Einion points out... taking most of the paint off the brush when working with very thin layers is also key... it\'ll definitely get rid of tide marks.

If you experiment with all the above advice, you\'ll have the problem cracked in no time!!

 

[scottjames]

Thanks for all the advice. I\'ve got some new things to try out now, I\'ll let you know how I get on.

In particular, the idea of watching a brush stroke dry before my eyes in warm weather suggests I\'ve not been doing it right *at all*.

 

[sanctuary13]

I\'ve had similar issues. I thin with tap water, although the tap water out here is extremely clean and pure. I\'ve never gotten the effect of \"drying as i brush it on\" ever. I\'ve heard of it, tried for it, but all i get is either a glob of paint or a wash that just jams in the cracks. I ordered some Vallejo matte medium, hoping that will help. I use both dry and wet palettes, same results.

\'course, I am almost 2000 feet above sea level, and in a dry area, so youd think itd dry in a snap...

 

[crazyboyae1]

Ok... so people here are right, what they are saying about medium is good, but no matter what kinda medium you use you can still have \"chalky\" finishes. i don\'t use any kind of medium and my finishes are far from chalky. you just have to make sure not to use to much on the brush, look at some of the articles that automation does where he says to wipe off the paint from the brush so you only have a small amount that should dry very quickly when it touches the model. you can do acsessive layering this way and gets super smooth finishes, oh, and make sure to keep a contstant brush stroke direction. crisscrossing brush strocks alot will get you calky results! good luck!

(and you can water down as much as you want. i water down almost 99-1 sometimes and my results are actually smoother the more i water down!)

 

[scottjames]

ok, slight progress. I managed the drying infront of my eyes effect. If there\'s hardly anything on the brush I can get it to dry on the model right after I brush it on.

I\'ve taken some snaps to show what I mean by \"chalky\". The highlighting looks good from a distance (three or four feet, one metre or so). Up close however, it looks terrible as you can see. It just looks watery, cloudy/chalky.

I\'ve actually done three or four coats of each of four different highlight shades, getting closer to the edge of the armour with each shade, watching the film of paint dry as I brush it on ... yet closeup it\'s hard to tell I\'ve done that!! Where is the strong and beautiful change in colour that I see on other painters\' models? =)

Any help? I snapped the paint I used on my wet palette too. Dont know if it\'s of any use ... the paintbrush tip is just so my camera could focus...

thanks for taking the time to read and reply.

 

[scottjames]

Originally posted by crazyboyae1
oh, and make sure to keep a contstant brush stroke direction. crisscrossing brush strocks alot will get you calky results! good luck!

Interesting. I do dab/stab/criss-cross quite a bit ... I\'ll try smooth strokes in the same direction.