brust_jagerhero
New member
Thoughts on Blacktyde's influence ability? Seems pretty OP to me having played against it twice now, for a 5 point NCU. Effectively over 6 rounds you are giving your army 24 more hit points, at a minimum, probably more because you have to have two unblocked hits to cause one. That is the equivalent to 2 more trays of units in durability. Then, making it worse, if you have an odd number of hits, they effectively have blocked an extra hit. So you only get credit for an even number of hits, which in practice means every odd number of hits = a free block.
The only way to strip the card is to cause a panic roll that the unit fails, and that either has to come from an attack that at least did 2 unblocked hits (so if you succeed in striping it, to get any benefit from the striping of the ability for that round, you would have to have a way to attack that unit a second time that round), or from some ability like the crown space that forces a panic test. By placing Beron first on the crown during the rounds Greyjoy goes first, you take that option out of play 3 out of 6 rounds to use the crown to force a panic test. And, even if you panic bomb the unit the unit the influence ability is on, all is not wasted, because the Greyjoy player still got the advantage of whatever space Beorn was placed on.
It takes 8 unblocked hits minimum to even strip just one of a 12 figure units ranks and that doesn't even account for the Greyjoy player healing the unit back up or putting it on a unit like Blacktyde's Chosen with Commander Baelor . Then the real kicker is you can move Beron's ability around each round to the unit that needs it the most if your opponent just ignores the unit it is on and decides to gang up on another one that ability wasn't on last round, or you can put it next round back on the unit it came off of if you want it back there.
By comparison, a giant only takes 12 unblocked hits to kill with his similar ability, and only has 1 attack dice, and costs 7 points, and is vulnerable to certain war machines.
To put it in even more context for perspective on how OP it is, especially on a unit with a moral of 5 or 6 (which is going to pass its panic test 2-3 out of every 3-4 times), with Ranger Hunters and WC, I can theoretically get 3 attacks, 4 if I use the cross sword space as well. Maximum attack dice is 8 (7 at full ranks, +1 for WC) equaling 32 possible theoretical hits, and if all the Greyjoy blocks missed, it would still only be 16 wounds at absolute theoretical max assuming a panic test was never failed. But, since statistically, only 2 in 3 dice are going to be a hit (and we have not even factored in what is successfully blocked of those hits), that is actually only 5 hits that would go through that unit on 4!!! attacks on that unit IF EVERY of the 32 ATTACKS HIT and none were blocked, (assuming the unit with Blacktyde's influence ability never failed a panic roll, which if you put it in a unit with Asha or Balon is quite doable.) And the issue isn't the unit is all but invulnerable, it is after 32!!! successful attacks, which should have killed nearly 3 units, it is barely down even one rank in the BEST of circumstances so still has its full attack value which it is wailing you with. Then you add on various healing methods via board or ability, and heck even 2 Ranger Hunters with WC, with max attacks would barely take you down a rank on a normal distribution curve for dice rolling. 20 points in attacks - half the points in your 40 point Army - and the unit is barely even down a rank / rank-and-a-half under the best of circumstances. Even Noye in Vets can't match that and that is one of the best defensive synergies I can think of.
Conscripts in the NW can supply aid for the same 5 points Beron costs, but they get weaker each time they do so, and each hit they provide is still only worth one hit, not two plus throw-away the odd number hit if you get one.
And while you are panic bombing the unit Beron has influenced, and attempting to take advantage of stripping the influence ability once you actually get it off, the opportunity costs of what you could be doing with those units or abilities are instead are stacking up. And next round, Beron gets to do it all over again.
Am I missing something here? Are there ways to mitigate that is more reliable than the unreliable method of trying to panic bomb the influence ability off, then having to have a unit in position to take advantage of that momentary weakness? Thoughts?
The only way to strip the card is to cause a panic roll that the unit fails, and that either has to come from an attack that at least did 2 unblocked hits (so if you succeed in striping it, to get any benefit from the striping of the ability for that round, you would have to have a way to attack that unit a second time that round), or from some ability like the crown space that forces a panic test. By placing Beron first on the crown during the rounds Greyjoy goes first, you take that option out of play 3 out of 6 rounds to use the crown to force a panic test. And, even if you panic bomb the unit the unit the influence ability is on, all is not wasted, because the Greyjoy player still got the advantage of whatever space Beorn was placed on.
It takes 8 unblocked hits minimum to even strip just one of a 12 figure units ranks and that doesn't even account for the Greyjoy player healing the unit back up or putting it on a unit like Blacktyde's Chosen with Commander Baelor . Then the real kicker is you can move Beron's ability around each round to the unit that needs it the most if your opponent just ignores the unit it is on and decides to gang up on another one that ability wasn't on last round, or you can put it next round back on the unit it came off of if you want it back there.
By comparison, a giant only takes 12 unblocked hits to kill with his similar ability, and only has 1 attack dice, and costs 7 points, and is vulnerable to certain war machines.
To put it in even more context for perspective on how OP it is, especially on a unit with a moral of 5 or 6 (which is going to pass its panic test 2-3 out of every 3-4 times), with Ranger Hunters and WC, I can theoretically get 3 attacks, 4 if I use the cross sword space as well. Maximum attack dice is 8 (7 at full ranks, +1 for WC) equaling 32 possible theoretical hits, and if all the Greyjoy blocks missed, it would still only be 16 wounds at absolute theoretical max assuming a panic test was never failed. But, since statistically, only 2 in 3 dice are going to be a hit (and we have not even factored in what is successfully blocked of those hits), that is actually only 5 hits that would go through that unit on 4!!! attacks on that unit IF EVERY of the 32 ATTACKS HIT and none were blocked, (assuming the unit with Blacktyde's influence ability never failed a panic roll, which if you put it in a unit with Asha or Balon is quite doable.) And the issue isn't the unit is all but invulnerable, it is after 32!!! successful attacks, which should have killed nearly 3 units, it is barely down even one rank in the BEST of circumstances so still has its full attack value which it is wailing you with. Then you add on various healing methods via board or ability, and heck even 2 Ranger Hunters with WC, with max attacks would barely take you down a rank on a normal distribution curve for dice rolling. 20 points in attacks - half the points in your 40 point Army - and the unit is barely even down a rank / rank-and-a-half under the best of circumstances. Even Noye in Vets can't match that and that is one of the best defensive synergies I can think of.
Conscripts in the NW can supply aid for the same 5 points Beron costs, but they get weaker each time they do so, and each hit they provide is still only worth one hit, not two plus throw-away the odd number hit if you get one.
And while you are panic bombing the unit Beron has influenced, and attempting to take advantage of stripping the influence ability once you actually get it off, the opportunity costs of what you could be doing with those units or abilities are instead are stacking up. And next round, Beron gets to do it all over again.
Am I missing something here? Are there ways to mitigate that is more reliable than the unreliable method of trying to panic bomb the influence ability off, then having to have a unit in position to take advantage of that momentary weakness? Thoughts?
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