Baratheon NCU Combos

[Mein Fury]

This topic may be premature, as we won't have a full suite of options until the new hero boxes come out (can’t wait), but I'd like to get a sense for how many/what NCUs you guys are currently running in your lists? Perhaps after the Heroes are released, this topic can be revisited and fleshed out. For now, it looks like a lot of players are supplementing with Tycho and/or Walder.

I like how Tycho doesn’t even need to claim a zone to use his healing ability, which has a very easy trigger and provides a healing bonus that a Stannis army can definitely use if it’s going to be D3-wounding itself all over the place. I can see him being useful in every game, even in cases where the tactics board might fill up.

As for the two Baratheon NCUs available right now, everyone seems to enjoy Shyra. I think she’s just right for 3 points. Her ability is simple, and is a nice little bonus almost every round. And as a Stannis player, I’m always down to place more condition tokens, while removing them from my own units. I see her ability becoming even more valuable if you include Stormcrow units in your army. Use her to grab the Wealth Zone, then place a token on your target of choice right before you perform a free attack against it, thanks to “Motivated by Coin.”

I’m a little more conflicted about Alester Florent though. I think his ability is situationally very strong, but have found it less useful generally. Seems his effectiveness depends more heavily on the size of the game and/or which faction you’re up against. Currently, I just play 35-point Games with the starter set units, and face a lot of Starks. In this lower point game, against a faction like Starks who prefer to hold completely different tactics zones, Alester’s ability feels less significant. In these cases, assuming he’s one of only 2 NCUs in your list, it’s tricky to immediately abandon a zone you’ve just claimed in order to trade for one the enemy wants, just to block them. You no longer claim the initial zone anymore (that you probably wanted), and also don’t trigger the effects of the new one (that you might not benefit from holding).

He probably works better when: A) you’re not out-activated, so can save his activation for a little later in the round, or B) the enemy seized a zone you really needed to hold, early on in the round. These conditions didn’t materialize as often as I thought they would in the games I’ve played. So in future, I likely won’t take him in any 2-NCU lists, especially against factions that have little interest in the tactics and crown zones.

But in a 40pt game, with a third NCU who really needs a certain zone, I can see Alester being more useful though. Like with Walder, he can guarantee you the Crown on those rounds where you’re not First Player. So you’re ensuring full Walder abilities at least 5/6 game rounds. With this old dude combo, I definitely see how Walder would be worth his high cost, especially since the Baratheons lack control abilities at the moment. I face a lot of Starks, so it would be really nice to neuter those ability-heavy units and/or snipe out a wolf or two...On top of that, he adds a little more incentive to grab the Crown, which is one of the Baratheons’ favored zones, but the one I’m more likely to pass on in favor of the Tactics zone.

Just some stuff I’ve been thinking about. What do you guys think about any of this?...

 

[DevlinBrightblade]

I tend to agree, until very recently I only had the Starter Set NCU's and often I found that Shyra was my first NCU played, and often I didn't get to play Alester, because I didn't see him as useful, I have just upgraged to the Neutral Heroes 1 box so will be running out with Varys or Littlefinger in favour of Alester, they seem to have more going for them..

 

[King_Kraken]

Alester has some very nice syngery with Walder Frey, allowing you to essentially always claim the crown if you need it to get the most mileage out of Walder. Otherwise, not really sure what his point is. 4 points for an order-based bait-and-switch makes me wonder how he's at all on the same power level as Littlefinger. I mean yeah, swapping to an already occupied zone is great but if it's only 2 times a game I think Littlefinger does more or less the same thing for you.

I like Haystack, she's generally really good on the letters (which Baratheons tend to want anyways), and her synergy with claiming the bags makes it so you could have some fun with Stormcrow lists potentially.

All told, though, from what we know now I'm most excited for Estermont since his card draw helps the Baratheons get their cards quicker. It's pretty essential to have a good hand for the situation, especially since so many cards trigger off the same event.

 

[Mein Fury]

All told, though, from what we know now I'm most excited for Estermont since his card draw helps the Baratheons get their cards quicker. It's pretty essential to have a good hand for the situation, especially since so many cards trigger off the same event.

Ugh yeah, Estermont is great at 3 points. I think he'd still be worth it at 4 points for the reasons you've pointed out. So naturally, I'm shaking my fist and clenching my teeth in the direction of you Renly players. It's like Renly gets everything, even Storm's End...but it's kind of awesome that the game is faithfully replicating that sibling rivalry in game terms in such a way that it's transferring over to the players intact lol.

 

[King_Kraken]

Ugh yeah, Estermont is great at 3 points. I think he'd still be worth it at 4 points for the reasons you've pointed out. So naturally, I'm shaking my fist and clenching my teeth in the direction of you Renly players. It's like Renly gets everything, even Storm's End...but it's kind of awesome that the game is faithfully replicating that sibling rivalry in game terms in such a way that it's transferring over to the players intact lol.

I'm really holding out for being a R'hllor unit being really advantageous for Stannis-oriented units, but as it stands a lot of the effects deal wounds to not much advantage. Looking at Devon, for example - his guaranteed charge is nice but at the price of d3 wounds and a 2 point attachment, I'm not entirely sure he's worth it. Not with the lineup as it stands, anyways. Wardens getting a charge off is meh, he makes Stag Knights 10 points, and Sentinels are... uhm, well they're Sentinels. I'm anxious to see what the Stannis-loyal units are, because they have to be different from the current lineup otherwise all these "hurt yourself to do X" effects just harm an already so-so faction.

 

[Oakwolf]

I wouldn't worry too much for Stannis. Keep in mind that due to the Loyalty split of this faction, the starter set has to be the most vanilla possible, meaning that the commanders (with said loyalty) won't get access to their specialty as much. It means that we might not see the synergies with the NCU until some time when the loyalties are fleshed out. Oh and btw i think we'll get two Estermonts (the other being Andrew)

Currently, Shyra is my go-to NCU for Baratheon, she's just a good 3pt character.

Alester...mmm, he can be pretty good for zone denial and control, but i didn't use his ability as much yet simply due to lack of experience with him. It's a very cunning power and you need to time it well in a turn. Tycho is far more obvious and easy to use. That said, i am starting to like how Alester can annoy the opponent to no end. They will often go for a zone which they need for a card effect to secure it, or try to block Baratheons out of Tactics/Crown. Alester make it very hard for this to work.

 

[Mein Fury]

I'm really holding out for a R'hllor unit being really advantageous for Stannis-oriented units, but as it stands a lot of the effects deal wounds to not much advantage. Looking at Devon, for example - his guaranteed charge is nice but at the price of d3 wounds and a 2 point attachment, I'm not entirely sure he's worth it. Not with the lineup as it stands, anyways. Wardens getting a charge off is meh, he makes Stag Knights 10 points, and Sentinels are... uhm, well they're Sentinels. I'm anxious to see what the Stannis-loyal units are, because they have to be different from the current lineup otherwise all these "hurt yourself to do X" effects just harm an already so-so faction.

Yeah I’m of the same mind atm. All of the “hurt yourself” abilities are looking to be a little much already, and the Stag Knights are the best unit for that, but as you point out, so pricey. I’m hoping the R’hllor fanatics get better or taper off as they take damage like the Umber units. Then damaging them wouldn’t bother you as much. I remember way back when Michael S. said in a podcast that Stannis would be getting a nasty ranged unit. So makes me wonder if we’ll see something with flaming missile attacks.

I’m not really worried about Stannis Oakwolf, because as you suggested, it’s just that he doesn’t have access yet to the units/cards he needs to be his best self. That being the case, I’m just a little impatient is all. This is only a normal post-release lack-of-options situation. I kind of wish they would release a faction with 1 additional box set beyond the starter set. As it is now, I wonder if I should buy some neutral stuff, or just keep playing with my starter set stuff and wait for more Baratheon specific units. I really don’t like the idea of adding Boltons and such into my army, even if they’re good units.

 

[Oakwolf]

Yeah I’m of the same mind atm. All of the “hurt yourself” abilities are looking to be a little much already, and the Stag Knights are the best unit for that, but as you point out, so pricey. I’m hoping the R’hllor fanatics get better or taper off as they take damage like the Umber units. Then damaging them wouldn’t bother you as much. I remember way back when Michael S. said in a podcast that Stannis would be getting a nasty ranged unit. So makes me wonder if we’ll see something with flaming missile attacks.

I’m not really worried about Stannis Oakwolf, because as you suggested, it’s just that he doesn’t have access yet to the units/cards he needs to be his best self. That being the case, I’m just a little impatient is all. This is only a normal post-release lack-of-options situation. I kind of wish they would release a faction with 1 additional box set beyond the starter set. As it is now, I wonder if I should buy some neutral stuff, or just keep playing with my starter set stuff and wait for more Baratheon specific units. I really don’t like the idea of adding Boltons and such into my army, even if they’re good units.

Yeah, i am a Bolton player and would never add these into my Baratheon forces...unless in a campaign with some narrative element that would promote such alliance.

I am also impatient (in a good way) to see what they come up with, but i am worried about being able to get the units when they come out.

 

[Mein Fury]

Currently, Shyra is my go-to NCU for Baratheon, she's just a good 3pt character.

Alester...mmm, he can be pretty good for zone denial and control, but i didn't use his ability as much yet simply due to lack of experience with him.

I guess it’s good to know my experience with him isn’t unique. He was trickier to use in game than I thought he’d be after reading his card. But as you point out, and as I figured, his value goes up when your opponent wants to take the same zones you want.

 

[Mein Fury]

...but i am worried about being able to get the units when they come out.

Oh yeah this reminds me: I never thought about it because I just opted into this with the Baratheons and Starter set, but after deciding I wanted the Neutral Heroes 2 upon many recommendations, it doesn’t seem to be in stock anywhere. So my actual gameplay options are even more limited than I thought lol

 

[AlxRaven]

As a Nights Watch player, I’m not looking forward to seeing Alester on an opposing Baratheon list. Chances are good that a well timed use will cut me off from a needed Vow ability.

But as stated, that’s a faction specific situation.

 

[DevlinBrightblade]

Oh yeah this reminds me: I never thought about it because I just opted into this with the Baratheons and Starter set, but after deciding I wanted the Neutral Heroes 2 upon many recommendations, it doesn’t seem to be in stock anywhere. So my actual gameplay options are even more limited than I thought lol

Tell me about it, I've being trying to get that set for ages now, along with some Blackguards, nobody has them, and i'm kind of worrying that CMON will not be producing any more or if they do it won't be enough to keep up with the backlog of demand..

 

[Mein Fury]

As a Nights Watch player, I’m not looking forward to seeing Alester on an opposing Baratheon list. Chances are good that a well timed use will cut me off from a needed Vow ability.

But as stated, that’s a faction specific situation.

If there's a little dread, then I'd have to believe he could come in clutch against NW. They seem to need a variety of diff zones at diff times. Once I get new options, I just doubt I'll be taking him very much against Starks or Targaryens (my brother in law and dad play these) unless he's part of a trio. But even then, against those factions I'd rather just use an NCU whose ability is more neutral regarding tactics board interactions. Like Tycho for instance. It doesn't matter what zones he takes. His ability has nothing to do with them. He's the sort I would use to take (and hold) say, the free attack zone. Then it's blocked. Alester's ability moves him off the zone he takes. I don't want that in this case. I want to stay on the zone the enemy wants. Now if the enemy already claimed their preferred zone on an earlier turn, I can use Alester to bump them off of course, but then I'm likely surrendering a zone that I actually wanted, just to take the enemy off of theirs; a new zone I won't benefit at all from because its ability won't trigger for me. The way I see it, if I'm going to "steal" a favored zone away from the enemy like this, I'd at least like to use the benefit it provides. I want that free attack or maneuver. Holding onto it without gaining any benefits from it doesn't impress me. So with Alester in this scenario, it's like you're paying 4 points so you can guarantee no one is happy with the state of the tactics board twice per game lol.