African American Cowboy Minis and gamers?

[beowulfthehunter]

Hi all,

I was running a wild west game for my store today. As with any game we started mentioning movies of theat genre. We brought up one of the best wild west movies and one of the worst. The best being Blazing Saddles and the worst being Wild Wild West. Both of these brought up two major points the first being: Does any one know of any company that makes western miniatures with african american fetures or not with a mustache, perferalby a sherrif. If anyone has any sugeestiong PM me.

That leads me to my next point. I know on most boards we discuss female painters and gamers, but my next question is what is the make up of minority gamers. i mean i go to conventions and ths stores around my house all seem to predominatly male and white. Is it just me or does everyone feel this way. i mean we are gamers after all and thus being labled as out casts as times would make us more accepting of all rqaces correct? I pose this as a question on the board. I ask that with race being such a sensitive issue people keep thier responses clean and non threatning.

 

[The Artisans Edge]

I truly doubt you\'ll find any models that clearly represent minority cowboy miniatures but if you do let me know where you got them. I\'d definetly love to see that. You\'d be hard pressed to find many non caucasian miniatures in general. They\'re are some out there but not that many. A majority of the ones you will find are usually historical. Bobby Jackson has a line call Thugz but those aren\'t exactly the most flattering or politically correct. I personally don\'t find them offensive (well maybe a little) but I have a few friends that would have a problem with them.

As for feeling a little like an outcast in this hobby, well I know that feeling first hand. I\'m Canadian by birth and Jamaican by descent. I have yet to meet another person of colour who is as avid a hobbyist as myself. I know there are several out there but I just haven\'t met any yet. I\'ve tried to get a few of my friends involved but to no avail. Even going into a store I\'ve recieved a few strange looks. Most find it hard to believe that I have an interest in a hobby like this. I\'ve recieved comments like, \"wow I never would have guessed\" or \"You really like this stuff?\" Just plain annoying. Is it that hard to believe?

I\'d love to to hear the experiences of other minorities on this board. There must be some out there right?

 

[Sturmhalo]

Blazing Saddles the best Western?

Anything with Clint, Jimmy Stewart or John Wayne, then you\'re talking! Garry Cooper as well maybe!



As for minorities, well, gaming appears to just be one of those things that\'s white dominated. Not through intention, but it obviously appeals more to whites than anyone else I\'d say. Look at music. Hip Hop is black dominated whilst Metal is white dominated. I guess it\'s just a cultural thing.

It\'s true that the figure manufacturers don\'t represent much in the way of ethnic groups outside of a historical context though. I don\'t particularly want to see GW start producing black or asian characters as part of their Empire or Brettonian armies though. That would just be politically correct overkill! However, ethnic groups could be represented in the Warhammer world, for example if GW resurrected interest in Araby, Nippon and Lustria.

With Sci-fi it\'s a lot easier to incorporate ethnic groups into figure ranges. We tend to see the far flung future as a place where humanity has put aside its petty squabbles and taken to killing aliens rather than one another! But you still rarely see mixed race ranges. I guess it\'s just down to the fact that most sculptors are likely to be white and just don\'t think about it. I know if I were a sculptor I\'d have to make a conscious decision to sculpt the next space mercenary (or whatever) as a black guy. It just needs that bit of extra thought.

I don\'t think ethnic groups should be represented in miniature (fantasy/sci-fi) out of political correctness though! That would just be patronising and only serve to ease the white middle class\' guilt complex. Manufacturers should include different ethnic groups in their figure ranges because it makes sense and it adds variety.

Wouldn\'t a black space marine captain be really cool?

Back to the original question now I think! Black cowboys! Foundry have three models that I can think of in their old west range. There\'s a black cowhand with rifle, a black gunfighter, and another black fella with a shotgun I think. Unfortunately they\'re all in different packs! Hope that helps.

 

[Sturmhalo]

Just remembered, Stone Circle Games have their China Town range which quite obviously represents rather a lot of Chinese characters. Oh and Foundry\'s Street Violence range has a good mix of different ethnis groups.

 

[Tuubje]

Originally posted by beowulfthehunter
i mean we are gamers after all and thus being labled as out casts as times would make us more accepting of all rqaces correct? I pose this as a question on the board. I ask that with race being such a sensitive issue people keep thier responses clean and non threatning.

It\'s not that you don\'t see many non-caucasian (trying to stay \'pc\' here ) persons in this hobby, that none exist or that we are instantly intolerable to other branches of the human race. A person has to decide for himself if he wants to have this hobby or not, it\'s all up to yourself.

 

[laurence]

green or blue?

These are some of my late night inebriated meditations on this matter... Maybe because most of the major miniature hobby companies are European and deal with masculine subject matter white males are drawn towards it?? I\'m sure however that as this hobby evolves all the good people of this world will catch on to how much this grand hobby rocks...

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by Sturmhalo
Blazing Saddles the best Western?

>I vote for High Noon or possibly the Magnificent Seven (if you consider a copy of the 7 Samurai really a \"western\" just because it\'s got cowboys)





Wouldn\'t a black space marine captain be really cool?

>If you look in my gallery you will see a black space marine captain. No converting either.

As to minorities, African-Americans make something like 13% of the USA population. I haven\'t taken a head count but I\'d say where I\'ve gamed there\'s usually been about that same representation in gamers.

 

[beowulfthehunter]

not what i meant

I figured the race issue would be more of a hot button issue than my notion of the best western (sounds like a hotel, but i digress). I meant Blazing Saddles as being the Best comedy western.
my next point is a semi rebutle to Strumhalo who siad he would not want to see non causcason Brettonians or Empire and i say why not. I mean these are all fantasy games,underline the word fantasy! Now am not tring to be like this reporter who cliamed LOTR was raceist becase there were no minorities in middle earth, but i am just trying to opne minds becase if we as a people stick to our own little racial clicks we will never ultimatly brige that rracial devide.

 

[Tuubje]

Originally posted by beowulfthehunter
my next point is a semi rebutle to Strumhalo who siad he would not want to see non causcason Brettonians or Empire and i say why not. I mean these are all fantasy games,underline the word fantasy! Now am not tring to be like this reporter who cliamed LOTR was raceist becase there were no minorities in middle earth, but i am just trying to opne minds becase if we as a people stick to our own little racial clicks we will never ultimatly brige that rracial devide.

That\'s because Brettonians and empire are based on a \'medieval\' theme, I doubt it you would see a Black knight (skincolour I mean, no pun intended), even though they\'re fantasy, there is still a historical truth in those 2 realms.

 

[Sturmhalo]

My point was this:

The Warhammer world was designed in such a way that it kind of mirrors our own world from slightly different historic periods. On the whole it\'s pretty much a medieval style world. Regardless of the fantasy races, humanity is still divided to a certain extent by race. I doubt GW intended this to be divisionalist in a bad way, but it does enable the different human armies to have clear imagery. For example the Empire is perhaps based on the Rennaisance, Bretonnia on a psuedo medieval Camelot, Nippon on ancient China, and Araby on the Middle East (I know they don\'t have armies for these last two nations, unfortunately). To begin turning the armies of the game world into multi-racial forces would errode the cohesive imagery that\'s been built up around each army. That\'s not to say that allied contingents might not be welcome though. It\'d also smack of excessive and unecessary political correctness.

That was only my point. There\'s nothing close minded about that kind of fantasy world. And as I said, to start trying to break down racial barriers that don\'t really exist (racism isn\'t a part of any fictional game world to my knowledge! Unless you\'re talking big green bug eyed monsters) in a fictional world is just a bit excessive. That would be along the same lines as your LOTR story. Some folks just go out of their way to be offended don\'t they?!

 

[Sturmhalo]

Originally posted by Tuubje

That\'s because Brettonians and empire are based on a \'medieval\' theme, I doubt it you would see a Black knight (skincolour I mean, no pun intended), even though they\'re fantasy, there is still a historical truth in those 2 realms.

You\'ve summed up my point rather more concisely!

 

[beowulfthehunter]

Well met Strumhalo

i see your point if you take those two armies as being based in history. I have never considered Warhammer to be taken from history (which it is i grant you) but noe the less it is bastardized history. Ok let it be dropped, back to my orignal notion of non causasions in gamming. Can i get some other sound offs from the people on this board.

 

[Tuubje]

Pinnacle used to make cowboy mini\'s for their rail wars and deadlands games, and in the card game \"Doomtown\", one of the main heroes is black...

 

[wyrmling_x]

Minority Gamers/Painters

Oh come on! Minorities play a large part in our hobby as well. For example, although I know of very few Asian participants in the hobby, don\'t forget the awe-inspiring BOBBY WONG!!!!!

He\'s an inspiration to us all with his incredible talent and involvement. I\'d give a kidney to paint like him!

Now, perhaps I could get my Chinese cousin into the hobby...but maybe I\'ll wait till she learns to walk first ...Hook \'em when they\'re young!

 

[Rachel]

heh

I\'ve got to assume that you\'re asking about ethnic divisions in primarily caucasian countries, right? Because I\'d assume that in China (for example) most of the gamers are Chinese ... It just made me grin because people throw around terms like \'minorites\' and \'African-American\'... terms which make little sense outside of America or in countries with a different ethnic balance .

Locally I\'ve noticed that it seems to be *reasonably* similar to the population split - so primarily pakeha/caucasian, some maori, some asian. It\'s an expensive hobby so there\'re some income-stream division, which for various reasons in NZ tends to also mean some degree of ethnic division.

About the minis - I think it\'d be pretty cool to have some Moorish Brettonians, but they\'d probably be special characters . Othello is an example - not impossible, but not usual. I don\'t know if the Empire would - I think they\'re based on a german empire (is it Ottoman? my history sucks) and I believe the Moorish influence was further south. But who knows, there were Viking bodyguards in Rome (I think) so people got all over the place.

There was a guy who sculpted his own spectacular grey knight (?) model some time ago based on one of the drawings from Inferno or something, he had the coolest dreadlocks, was quite african-looking, and this neat weapon with rings through the blade. I heard some rumour about that being produced in a limited run as a special model - does anyone else know what I\'m talking about? It was very cool, one of those models to commit brutal murder to get

I\'m gonna stop before I get even more OT...

 

[JimG]

Black Grey Knight/Inquisitor

It was beautiful and (apparently) it was snapped up by Jervis for a limited run. It should be available soon as a specialty item. I would love to get a copy.

 

[Rachel]

How soon is soon?

ooo... \'soon\' huh? Any idea whether that means this year? And how to get hold of it... it must be mine...

 

[vincegamer]

Ottoman was essentially modern Turkey and some smaller mid-east countries. Maybe also Iran/Iraq.
Holy Roman Empire is older than the Warhammer period but ranged through most of continental Europe.
Late in period it was mainly Germany/Prussia/Poland which is what the Warhammer empire is based on.
All that aside, people travel. Black people and Asian people would likely have existed in the \"Empire\" but would have been rare. More so than they are in Europe or America today.
It would be strange to have a black unit, but a black soldier in your unit would make perfect sense. Since it\'s a unit-based game they are unlikely to make black soldiers because it would not be sufficiently sellable.

As to Tolkein, if someone said there are no blacks in LOTR, he hasn\'t read the books. The evil humans from the south are black.

 

[Jeff_Hofmann]

Originally posted by beowulfthehunter
Now am not tring to be like this reporter who cliamed LOTR was raceist becase there were no minorities in middle earth,
.

Yeah! It should be more like D&D the movie with the wayans brother in it!!!

Hahahaha!

 

[Jeff_Hofmann]

Someone else mentioned deadalnds figures. I painted up some of these as african americans....Buffalo soldiers, steampack operators and one rail gang worker. These figures are still available from jeff valent studios. Do a web search if you are interested, I can\'t recall the exact web address right now.

Anyway, I think it would be difficult to sculpt african american features on a mini without making it look like a negative stereotype. I\'d just stick with the paint